How come Nokia doesn't make Android devices

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#869376 31-Jul-2013 16:03

timmmay: I know, I'll probably end up with one of those, probably the mini once the price comes down. I quite like the size of my iPod G2.

I had the HTC One, but there were some hardware things that just frustrated me something chronic. In the end I traded in for the S4 and I have to say, it's a great phone. Amazing screen, the camera is amazing and the home h/ware key is a god send after not having one. Plus the power button being on the side is a no brainer.

For all it's innovative things and gorgeous construction, the HTC One misses the boat on some basic features.

crackrdbycracku

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#869379 31-Jul-2013 16:06

If you go looking for a phone in the retail channel there are lots of Android phones and you basically shop by price and spec, in other words the market is commodified.

If you decide you want a Win Pho then the Nokia branding will probably carry a lot more weight than it would otherwise. I think the idea from Nokia is the be the number one phone maker, all be it in the number three ecosystem, and I would probably say they have succeeded. Companies long to sell on brand rather than price and spec. From a business point of view it makes sense for Nokia to do this and give up the Android market.

Samsung makes the lion share of profits in Android. But Sony is making some good phones of late and HTC is often 'researchers' choice over Samsung. Or to put it another way, if your not one of the Big Three good luck making any money or getting traction. Just ask Google's 'hardware partner' Motorola. I think Moto is the only major manufacture not to have made a Nexus branded device.

The way Android works can also make updates difficult for everybody. At the time Nokia made the decision to go Win Pho Android was forking like crazy. You don't see much in the press about that any more but it is probably still a problem and likely not to get better. With tight integration between Windows and Nokia updates can become easier for everybody and represent a better deal for customers.

I thought the same thing when the decision was made about Nokia not doing any Android phones but it actually looks like Nokia a making a go of it. They are the dominant Win Pho maker, they have made the Lumia brand a synonym for a Win Pho that works and they are making sales. Recent chat has talked of a Nokia tablet running some upgraded version of Win Pho as a replacement to the Surface RT but that's just chat at this stage.

I also think there is an appeal to carriers in Nokia's success, not that you would know from the way retail staff never push Nokia. The Nokia Windows partnership represents a Third Way. Apple is complete vertical integration, of everything. Android is the Wild West. The Nokia Windows thing is ... something different. Carriers hated being pushed around by Apple when the iPhone was at it's height and will do a lot to avoid one player or system becoming dominant.

Anyway, that's what I think. Feel free to tell my I got it all wrong.

To ask a related question, if you are not Nokia is there any reason at all to make a Windows Phone?

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timmmay

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#869386 31-Jul-2013 16:18

HTC makes windows phones don't they?

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#869389 31-Jul-2013 16:20

crackrdbycracku:

To ask a related question, if you are not Nokia is there any reason at all to make a Windows Phone?

Sure there is, there is a (growing) user base who prefer the Windows Phone 8 OS over Android or iOS. Then there's also the whole pin-your-hopes-on-Microsoft-reversing-their-downward-trend. Both HTC and Samsung make Windows phones, and while they're not as popular as their respective Android offerings, they're not dead weight either.

crackrdbycracku

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#869391 31-Jul-2013 16:22

timmmay: HTC makes windows phones don't they?

They do and from what I have heard they are pretty good. I had one retail staffer tell me if I had to have a Windows Phone they were the ones to get, not Nokia.

But personally I think anybody but Nokia is wasting their time. Nokia have the brand recognition and my guess is we will see the partnership start to pay off when upgrades to Win Phone 8 start. I think other makers phones will get the upgrade but Nokia will get it first and get exclusives. Unless another maker was willing to make something vastly better and sell it vastly cheaper this will ensure Nokia dominance.

Personally, I am very happy with my Lumia 720. I wanted something simpler than my old Android and that is exactly what I got.

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#869393 31-Jul-2013 16:24

If Nokia want to sell phones they're going to have to find a way to let people try them in the store before they buy. People know iPhone, people know Android, but W8 is an unknown to most.

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crackrdbycracku

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#869395 31-Jul-2013 16:31

timmmay: If Nokia want to sell phones they're going to have to find a way to let people try them in the store before they buy. People know iPhone, people know Android, but W8 is an unknown to most.

Couldn't agree more. I just read MS dropped $1bn on Windows 8/RT/Surface marketing. It is shocking how little recognition the phone brand has.

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#869401 31-Jul-2013 16:39

timmmay: If Nokia want to sell phones they're going to have to find a way to let people try them in the store before they buy. People know iPhone, people know Android, but W8 is an unknown to most.

I get the impression NZ/APAC in General is not really that high up there on Nokia's list.

Europe and the US get the majority of the marketing blitz and availability. We are often months behind on availability and I have never seen a Nokia ad on TV. Even worse the knowledge amongst the people who are meant to be selling them is near to zero. We don't have Microsoft stores and noone in Vodafone or JB knows a damn thing about Windows devices.

HTC do make Windows Phone 8 devices and they are nice, but I would take a Lumia any day.

We have deployed Windows Phone 8 as our standard device using the HTC 8S - it works, people like it. However it is behind on a number of features that Android and iOS have. But remember they are coming from behind here - a gen 1 or gen 2 iPhone is a very different beast to current. They are also years behind in public opinion, regardless of how good the product is joe average equates smartphone with iphone, through Samsung is starting to win some battles there.

You are also seeing the next generation coming through - it is interesting to see how their loyalties work. I get the impression iPhone is still the gold standard amongst the wealthy teenagers. Get them young, build their investment in an environment (sunk itunes cost etc) and you make switching a pain.

Nokia recently came out and said they were frustrated with Microsoft taking so long to turn around new features - totally true.

But I see Microsoft toiling away in the background and getting better and better - they certainly have the warchest to do so. I think as the OS improves and you end up with deeper integration with the Microsoft Stack (Xbox for consumers, Office/Sharepoint/Exchange/System Center for work) it will become more convincing.

I'm a long time Windows Phone user - still on my Lumia 800. I will upgrade to another Lumia in a year or so.

I run Windows 8 on my laptop, just bought a Nexus 7 (android) tablet. Wife has an Android phone, Stepson has an iPhone. I hate all Apple products with a passion, but acknowledge they are incredible pieces of technology and don't care/mind if people use them. I am not going to preach.

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#869475 31-Jul-2013 18:48

I'd love to have a play with a W8 phone, I wonder if you can hire them anywhere. If anyone upgrades and has an old one drop me a PM. Just curious really. I wouldn't buy without trying.

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#869613 31-Jul-2013 22:23

Microsoft spends a lot on windows phone marketing, but not here.....

http://blogs.computerworld.com/windows-phone/22563/windows-phone-surges-9-share-uk-and-france-cements-third-place-us

"latest sales figures show 9% market share in UK and France"
"cements third place in U.S."

Now we're starting see good numbers and with the higher market share the visibility of the device is going surge and, theoretically, the market share will also rise further. This should also lead to better app support as companies start to realise they could miss out on a lot of customers by ignoring Win Phone when building native apps.

I believe that AT&T and Microsoft are also going to push the latest Nokia devices really hard in the US which should help boost their market share further.

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#869615 31-Jul-2013 22:27

And here is an interesting statistic on Android "fragmentation": http://opensignal.com/reports/fragmentation-2013/

"11,868 distinct android devices seen this year"
"37.9% users on Jelly Bean" compared to "95% users on IOS 6"

Wow.

Android can be beautiful and smooth, but some of the cheap phones are just underspec'd and awful. If a consumer gets a cheap android and sees a similarly cheap windows phone next to it, there is a good chance they'll switch next time around. A high-end android user (galaxy, htc one etc) is probably less likely to switch brand/os.

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#869620 31-Jul-2013 22:35

I know it's not really an apples to apples comparison since we're talking WP8 here, but I have a Trophy 7 for my work phone, and I absolutely loathe it. To the point where I bought a Nexus 4 so use for everything but work. My partner has a Ascend W1 (again, not apples to apples on this cheap phone) and it's not much better.

I would love to be using the Nokia hardware, but it's a definite DO NOT BUY as long as Windows Phone is the only choice.

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Snowflake

#869643 31-Jul-2013 23:34

neoprint: I know it's not really an apples to apples comparison since we're talking WP8 here, but I have a Trophy 7 for my work phone, and I absolutely loathe it. To the point where I bought a Nexus 4 so use for everything but work. My partner has a Ascend W1 (again, not apples to apples on this cheap phone) and it's not much better.

I would love to be using the Nokia hardware, but it's a definite DO NOT BUY as long as Windows Phone is the only choice.

Why do you 'loathe it'? Not trying to convert you... just wondering what it is that turns you off. Is it apps, the UX, or something else?

For me the most important thing is email and the windows phones (both 7.x and 8.x) do a better job than any other in serving up Exchange mailboxes. The rest of apps I consider as nice-to-have, rather than essential, so having less choice didnt bother me too much. I originally had a trophy 7, which got upgraded to 7.8 (WP8 start screen) until i swapped it out for my current Nokia Lumia 800, also running 7.8. My wife has an HTC 8S. The Nokia variant added the Nokia Drive GPS Navigation application which is awesome, would be part of my top 5 apps, and would make me place nokia ahead of other brands in future purchases.

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#869683 1-Aug-2013 08:09

Of the three, Android is probably the one with the most variation - different versions, different manufacturers customisations etc - and it is the most likely to get in to a state where performance is compromised. That's not to say the others can't, it's just more likely with Android. But it's not an innate performance issue with the OS.

Isnt that the same with PC manufactuers? i.e. everyone making the same thing but different variations using Windows as the OS and slightly different base OS configurations when shipped?

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#869687 1-Aug-2013 08:17

Gooseybhai:

Of the three, Android is probably the one with the most variation - different versions, different manufacturers customisations etc - and it is the most likely to get in to a state where performance is compromised. That's not to say the others can't, it's just more likely with Android. But it's not an innate performance issue with the OS.

Isnt that the same with PC manufactuers? i.e. everyone making the same thing but different variations using Windows as the OS and slightly different base OS configurations when shipped?

Yes, it is, and there's a significant variation in how Windows performs on different machines, even of similar spec, depending on what bloatware is installed.

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