Pixel 8 release soon

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#3250305 18-Jun-2024 09:34

Asteros:

TeaLeaf:

Why is the 8 only $889 delivered to NZD from amazon US? It feels like NZ gets really shafted for electronics.

I like the idea of the Iphone storing the ai data to the onboard SOC so no personal data is sent? But data has been sent for decades so why now is security such a concern, ai will only use the data you send and most apps for banking etc are encrypted? But the Iphone 13 is in my list, should still get 3 years support, maybe the 14.

Then Im looking at the s24fe and wondering will it also include 7 years support like the S24 etc recieved?

Im essentially trying to buy a phone thats going to be supported for 3-4 year minimum for less than $1k ideally with a decent camera and ideally with a big screen ie 6.4"+.

Thats why I wonder if the Pixel 8 Pro for $900 delivered could be the one for me, just the apple storage of ai data to SoC does seem a good feature.

Of the Pixel 8 colours, I like the blue the most, I think its called "Bay"...... but not available on current pricing.

I believe that only the Iphone 15 Pro and 15 Pro Max have on-device AI processing (Apple Intelligence). They each have 8GB RAM, which appears to be the minimum requirement.

The Iphone 13 (4GB RAM) and 13 Pro (6GB RAM) you mentioned will not have on-device AI nor Apple Intelligence.

Edited: to correct only 15 Pro and 15 Pro Max have generative AI or "Apple Intelligence"

The Pixel 8 and 8a have on board AI

https://chromeunboxed.com/the-pixel-8-and-8a-now-have-access-to-on-board-ai-thanks-to-the-june-pixel-update/

davidgo2

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#3250307 18-Jun-2024 09:39

TeaLeaf:

so items are not GST exempt, just import fee exempt? If so I dont see why worrying about being under $1k is that beneficial, if it saves more than the import fee/stamp duty?

its a real shame the pixel 7 only gets 3 years updates, its google for cripes sake. its a real competitor to the Iphone 14 Pro, but much better value.

Items are kind-of GST exempt - as in if someone privately posts them to you, and they are under the threshhold ($1000 including shipping and don't have duties associated with them) then you don't pay GST - However - it seems that the government has done some kind of deal with the big providers overseas and have them charge you GST. ) - You can see the stuff about duties at https://www.customs.govt.nz/personal/duty-and-gst/whats-my-duty-estimator/ and https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/356351/govt-announces-amazon-tax-to-apply-gst-to-online-goods may also help understand the situation - save that the limit was raised from $400 - $1000.

Might I extremely humbly suggest that if you are not familiar with this that it would seem you don't buy much stuff online from overseas and maybe getting expensive electrical goods from overseas is not a good initial purchase - as there are compatibility, warranty and consumer protection law issues to consider as well. I think most people who buy stuff overseas recognize some value to the additional protections of buying locally - especially for an item like a cellphone. As an obvious example - Amazons advertised price "including shipping to NZ" is not what a New Zealander would consider the total price - Is this dishonest? Is it false advertising? Is this acceptable practice? A Kiwi's answer will likely not be the same as someone from, for example, the USA - and your expectations may or may not match the realities for after sales service as well. (Its very much the wild west - sometimes service is BETTER then in NZ).

Definately not recommendations - I only know a very limited number of places that don't charge GST on cell cellphones - Giztop and Sunsky-Online (unfortunately neither of these sell Pixel Phones). Maybe someone else on this forum can share other places?

Of-course if you are going to Aussie you can buy the items there, claim back the Australian tax at the airport, and not pay tax when coming into NZ - indeed PBTech specifically offer something a bit similar if you are flying in from overseas [but they do load a premium on the goods which is more then you would pay excluding GST in NZ, but less then the GST would be]

TeaLeaf

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#3250312 18-Jun-2024 09:57

Asteros:

I believe that only the Iphone 15 Pro and 15 Pro Max have on-device AI processing (Apple Intelligence). They each have 8GB RAM, which appears to be the minimum requirement.

The Iphone 13 (4GB RAM) and 13 Pro (6GB RAM) you mentioned will not have on-device AI nor Apple Intelligence.

Edited: to correct only 15 Pro and 15 Pro Max have generative AI or "Apple Intelligence"

Yep that is all correct, although other apple devices to get access to less data sensitive ai functions in the latest release ie image editing similar to Pixel.

Im not sure any ai features are of interest to me, but I would have to go through the list to see what I might use that I currently do on larger devices. Good to Siri finally get an update, I believe it to be connectd to chatgpt now, although you need to get a Chatgpt "Key" for that functionality to work.

On another note, the Pixel 8 Pro is handing down its features to older models
Older Pixel Pros now have manual lens selection, can capture better HDR+ photos - GSMArena.com news

and interesting news on the P9 Pro XL on geekbench
Google Pixel 9 Pro XL spotted for the first time on Geekbench - GSMArena.com news

Im considering an interim phone until the new IP16 is released and lowers the 15 price or the Pixel 9 lowers the 8 Pro next year. Similar if the ai features do not wow me that much I will go with the Pixel 8 Pro, which I wish I could afford now, I was looking at $800 but could up it to $1k but Im not going to get the 8 Pro for that price this year. The 7 Pro can be had for $850 now, so that gives an idea of what the 8 Pro should drop to come the Pixel 9 release, assuming its in March 25

GSMarena, currently on their site the Samsung A55 is the top device being researched by "buyers" etc. However the A54 is a very similar device with some minor upgrades in the a55, a54 is $530 vs $610 for the a55. an increase of the 120hz S-amoled screen to 6.6", close to the P8 Pro. It also uses a 4nm exynos SoC vs the 5nm in the a54. Same cameras but good ones with the Sony IMX 906 50mp main sensor, wide angle Sony IMX258 which I believe is also used for the 5mp macro lens. Power wise, antutu v9 scores; a54 506678, a5 645539. P8 Pro 924853. Battery life has improved on the a55 with active use score of 13:27 hours, Pixel 8Pro and a54 both OK with ~11.14 hours. Of the 3 the a55 has the best loud speaker.

The Samsungs really do own the low and mid range market, however the software for the Pixel produces better pics (possibly better lens quality too) with the Pixel 8 Pro being very near equal to the Iphone 15 Pro Max, not quite as good/natural in the selfie. So the Pixel 8 Pro with a class leading camera, decent enough battery life, quality screen, excellent OS, some ai features, etc... with 7 years of major support shows it to be at the price point imo apple and samsung flagships should be closer too. $1400 vs $2250 for the iPhone 15 Pro Max.

You can get really good quality in Chnese phones like the OnePlus and the Xaomi. We have just retired a Nord. But after all this Huawei debacle Im just not sure how safe personal data is.

If I spend $600 on the a55, it will do everything I need and in some parts better than the Pixel. But the pixel jpegs do not need any work straigt out of the camera. Not to say the a55 are bad. We have an a33 work phone and its pics are very sharp and its well behind the a55. But the Pixel is just easy to use, however I would need to spend $1400 to get the Screen size I need in the Pro. Of course you get other features over the standard Pixel 8. Or I could get the Pixel 7 Pro for $850, big screen and 5x optical zoom, but its 2 years old in october, with only one year support in October left.

Conundrum. Essentially I use my personal mobile as an entertainment device hence the big screen and a secondary camera over my Pro level camera where the mobile I always have on me so is used prob 95/100 for photos. Battery life is reasonably important. I think 5000mah is the sweet spot. Its crazy we were accepting spending $2400 for a device that lasts 3yrs, leaving a perfectly useable device if it had updates still. Sadly the P7 Pro wont get longer than 21 months left of support even if only $850.

So the galaxy a55, if I sell it next year once the 8 Pro drops price, I may get $250 for it. I see most used a54s are around $350, but Im not sure how quick they would sell.

TeaLeaf

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#3250320 18-Jun-2024 10:47

Just how good is the google one VPN? I notice you can get it with the pixel... (not sure if all models). Can it be used for accessing geo-located streaming media overseas? ie EU streaming TV channels?

The one "feature", its more like its own product in Samsung, that would have me buying a Pixel 8 Pro today would be a desktop mode as good as "Dex", not a rubbish OS like the iPhone version was/is.........

also just how good is the Good Titan M2 security chip for AI vs the Iphone implementation? I presume the Titan retains all personal data encryption keys on the Titan chip regardless of data type, where the apple solution targets AI specific data?

What is the Titan M2 security chip in Google's Pixel phones? (androidauthority.com)

davidgo2:

However - it seems that the government has done some kind of deal with the big providers overseas and have them charge you GST. )

Yes indeed. another example, guitars. When you buy from Thomann.de they load gst regardless of the price, where smaller music stores do not. Very sneaky. I think its dodgy from the tax department. But what ya gonna do lol. Well actually with guitar gear I do have stuff sent over from smaller music stores. :-). I wonder if that would work with electronics. Oddly with amazon if buying from the .au store, I believe GST is loaded vs buying from .com its to be added on checkout.

If my father in law buys a pixel 8 pro for a good price, he can then send it to me without GST being applied provided its under $1k all up? If not, what if he took it out of the box and sent as a "I took your phone recently in NZ with me by mistake", could he then send it back GST free?

Im familiar with importing expensive guitars, just not phones :-)

davidgo2

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#3250348 18-Jun-2024 11:31

TeaLeaf:

Just how good is the google one VPN? I notice you can get it with the pixel... (not sure if all models). Can it be used for accessing geo-located streaming media overseas? ie EU streaming TV channels?

also just how good is the Good Titan M2 security chip for AI vs the Iphone implementation? I presume the Titan retains all personal data encryption keys on the Titan chip regardless of data type, where the apple solution targets AI specific data?

What is the Titan M2 security chip in Google's Pixel phones? (androidauthority.com)

davidgo2:

However - it seems that the government has done some kind of deal with the big providers overseas and have them charge you GST. )

Yes indeed. another example, guitars. When you buy from Thomann.de they load gst regardless of the price, where smaller music stores do not. Very sneaky. I think its dodgy from the tax department. But what ya gonna do lol. Well actually with guitar gear I do have stuff sent over from smaller music stores. :-). I wonder if that would work with electronics. Oddly with amazon if buying from the .au store, I believe GST is loaded vs buying from .com its to be added on checkout.

If my father in law buys a pixel 8 pro for a good price, he can then send it to me without GST being applied provided its under $1k all up? If not, what if he took it out of the box and sent as a "I took your phone recently in NZ with me by mistake", could he then send it back GST free?

Im familiar with importing expensive guitars, just not phones :-)

I can only speak to some of this. No idea about Titan M2 security chip for AI vs iPhone - although I understand that Pixels are as good as it gets when it comes to Android Security - which is one key reason why GrapheneOS only supports Pixel devices (although if you don't care about ownership Issues, Samsung Knox may be as good or better - Don't know. Won't touch Samsung after they bit me). FYI, Pixel phones have the best "aftermarket ROM" support of any phone, because of the way they manage the bootloader. If you are into AI, GrapheneOS is not for you - but they are still providing as much support for Pixel 4's and above as they can (https://grapheneos.org/faq#device-support). LineageOS looks like it supports back to the Pixel 3 (https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/blueline/) - although unlike GrapheneOS I don't know if they support automatic updates.

I've not used Google One VPN.

Similarly, for the level of AI that Google includes in their Pixel 8 Pro there is no way this can be done purely locally - they must be sending data to the cloud - and Apple will need to be the same. They simply don't have the dataset - let alone the compute requirement to do some of the magic locally to your phone.

If your father in law buys a Pixel 8 Pro from Aussie he would not need to pay GST when it comes into NZ as long as its less then NZ$1k all up based on the exchange rates in the whatismyduty link. He would probably need to pay Australian tax (VAT? Not sure what its called) - although last time I looked you could claim this back at the airport - but make sure you have the paperwork and set aside the time to do it - https://www.abf.gov.au/entering-and-leaving-australia/tourist-refund-scheme has details. The phone needs to travel in his carry-on luggage as it has a battery.

Another possibility - and its been a long time - I recall that JB Hifi in Sydney (and probably other airports - I see Brisbane, Melbourne, Perth and Goldcoast International Airports on their list as well ) have a store in the AIrport International terminal where you can purchase stuff duty free - https://www.jbhifi.com.au/pages/sydney-international-airport - it may be worthwhile giving them a call and seeing what they would charge to just buy it once he has cleared customs. IIRC JB Hifi in NZ would even honour their warranty - but do double check.

TeaLeaf

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#3250494 18-Jun-2024 16:27

davidgo2:

If your father in law buys a Pixel 8 Pro from Aussie

Sorry If I confused, no hes in Germany. I would have thought there must be some way to send a phone via shipping despite the battery? Clearly companies like Amazon do.

Im spell bound by some of the Chinse phones with the Sony IMX989 1" sensor. They typically have 6.7" ~550ppi 2k Screens with DV & HDR10, latest Qualcomm 4nm SoC, and on it goes. The Xiaomi ones I believe still have play store access.

The Oppo Find x7 Pro uses those specs, currently tied for 3rd on the DXO ratings (always take them with a pinch of salt). The Xiaomi 14 Pro uses a very similar set of hardware.

Oddly the Pixel 8 Pro went with the Samsung 1.31" sensor. I thought the Sony imx989 1" would have been perfect for the P8 Pro, putting the quality close to the infamous RX100 point and shoot camera into the hands of millions. Still its not that far off. The Google trickery makes up for hardware.

I thought this is a good way to show the difference in sensor size, taken from the article following this first link. US and I think Taiwan are putting in some work to build a high quality Omnivision 1" sensor for the mass market.

https://i0.wp.com/www.smartprix.com/bytes/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/image-111.png?ssl=1&quality=80&w=728&h=485

Sony IMX 989 Sensor Phones: Best mobiles with IMX989 Camera sensor in India (2024) - Smartprix

timmmay

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#3250496 18-Jun-2024 16:31

Amazon will have contacts with shippers for that sort of thing, and all the documentation available. They're also cheap and fast. Using a reshipping is possible but more hassle.

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farcus

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#3250500 18-Jun-2024 16:38

Jvipers2:

Was informed that the Japan thing is a geolocation thing. Possible to turn off once GPS detects you're outside, or will be forced on when in Japan. Not 100% sure as have not been nor have bought a Japanese phone...

Not sure that is true. My pixel 6a is sourced from Japan and has no option to disable the shutter sound - even though geolocated to NZ.
It's a pretty subtle sound though - not a really obnoxious one like the Japanese iphones.

TeaLeaf

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#3250546 18-Jun-2024 19:07

timmmay:

Amazon will have contacts with shippers for that sort of thing, and all the documentation available. They're also cheap and fast. Using a reshipping is possible but more hassle.

Yeh neither, if the item is not sent from a shop, will they apply GST back in NZ?

This OnePlus 12 screen is nuts.

AMOLED, 1B colors, 120Hz, Dolby Vision, HDR10+, 600 nits (typ), 1600 nits (HBM), 4500 nits (peak)
6.82" 1440 x 3168 pixels (~510 ppi density)

That must look awesome. 2k amololed at 120hz DV or HDR, 4500nits peak brightness lol.

davidgo2

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#3250558 18-Jun-2024 20:02

TeaLeaf:

Yeh neither, if the item is not sent from a shop, will they apply GST back in NZ?

This OnePlus 12 screen is nuts.

AMOLED, 1B colors, 120Hz, Dolby Vision, HDR10+, 600 nits (typ), 1600 nits (HBM), 4500 nits (peak)
6.82" 1440 x 3168 pixels (~510 ppi density)

That must look awesome. 2k amololed at 120hz DV or HDR, 4500nits peak brightness lol.

Provided its less then $1000 they will not charge GST.

The Oneplus 12 certainly gives the Pixel 8 series a run for the money, but you will struggle to get one for under $1k. You can probably get the Oneplus 12r for just under 1k from Oneplus directly (for example on Aliexpress) - it has a slightly lower resolution then the Oneplus 12, but similar brightness . You might also want to rule out the Oneplus Ace 3 - which is more-or-less the same hardware for a lot less money, but does not have the same OS or upgrade support - and I think they may reach that price point by pumping adverts at you. (https://xdaforums.com/f/oneplus-12r-oneplus-ace-3.12829/ is also worth a read if this phone is a consideration for you. )

timmmay

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#3250559 18-Jun-2024 20:08

TeaLeaf:

Yeh neither, if the item is not sent from a shop, will they apply GST back in NZ?

Usually, yes. Reshippers, yes.

davidgo2

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#3250631 18-Jun-2024 21:13

timmmay:

TeaLeaf:

Yeh neither, if the item is not sent from a shop, will they apply GST back in NZ?

Usually, yes. Reshippers, yes.

Are you sure on this? The reshippers sites I've seen specifically state they don't collect tax (eg Reship, ViaBox,forward2me,xpsship,shipstation,shipito) - and why would they - they don't typically open your parcels to check whats inside or know how much you paid (and are smallfry compared to Amazon, Ebay, Aliexpress). They also try and set up in zones where they won't be taxed to receive parcels -ie a large part of their business model is helping people avoid paying taxes - and https://www.customs.govt.nz/personal/send-and-receive-items/receive-items-from-overseas/ specifically says you don't need to pay tax to customs NZ [on non duty items under $1k). The exception here is, of-course, Youship which is owned by NZPost, (also Myus.com seem to charge this tax)

Of particular interest, This Fedex page says "Most shipments across international borders are subject to duty and tax assessment by the importing country. Customs authorities collect duties and taxes on goods coming into and out of a country as a type of tax on cross-border goods." - which to me very strongly implies that they do not take the GST if you use Fedex Per https://www.fedex.com/en-nz/shipping-guide/pack/lithium-batteries.html they also handle Lithium Batteries if properly packaged.

The same is true of UPS - https://www.ups.com/nz/en/shipping/how-to-ship-internationally.page states "Not every international shipment will get charged customs fees. Taxes, duties and brokerage fees are customarily paid by the receiver (although you can choose to pay them). We can estimate your duties and taxes, but final costs are determined at the point of entry." - and they also have a guide for shipping things with batteries - https://www.ups.com/media/news/en/lithium_batteries_instruction_guide.pdf - although I don't know they will ship via air. (Could be wrong)

TeaLeaf

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#3250632 18-Jun-2024 21:14

timmmay:

Usually, yes. Reshippers, yes.

a family member sending an opened item?

davidgo2:

The Oneplus 12 certainly gives the Pixel 8 series a run for the money

For me the reason to buy the Pixel8 Pro. Its the only device in its price range that deliver 7 years of updates. and the screen is plenty good enough, sure the asian phones have better screens and camera sensors etc, but will they be there in 7 years etc. Id go the Iphone Pro Max for sure if it wasnt so absurdly priced.

timmmay

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#3250637 18-Jun-2024 21:23

GST collection has gotten a lot more active.

I used a USA based reshipper a few weeks ago, MyUS. They added on the cost of GST. I think it was optional, I chose to pay them and have the package enter the country more easily rather than having to wait for customs to bill me and delay things.

davidgo2

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#3250653 18-Jun-2024 21:26

TeaLeaf:

a family member sending an opened item?

You need to be more concerned as to whether the courier/post office will accept devices with Lithium batteries then paying duties. I have a strong feeling that the whole system of duties is handled by the WCO-UPU (Universal Postal Union) and they have set worldwide norms - including that duty - if any - is up to the recipients country to collect - and NZ have said you don't have to pay if its less then $1k.

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