Chorus installed fibre - can ONT be used as router

Forums › New Zealand Broadband › Chorus installed fibre - can ONT be used as router

dyllos

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#303289 30-Jan-2023 10:48

Hi, nice to find this nz based forum

We just had chorus install fibre into the house and they put in a Model Type 300 ONT. It has LAN ports and wifi aerial, so I am hoping for sake of the planet that another router/modem is NOT needed to get an internet connection? Can people confirm if they have been able to get internet through an ISP with just this ONT box? And if so, through which ISP(s)? if it's not possible, why is such a box with all this tech in it, not being used to its full potential? (Chorus bangs on about being planet conscious)...

Thanks

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#3029341 30-Jan-2023 10:53

No,

The 300 ONT has no DHCP ability so cannot handle multiple devices,

I think the 400 has the capability, but not sure if any ISPs are using it as a RGW...

EDIT: it does appear the 300 can do DHCP... but again not sure how many use it as an RGW

stick

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#3029344 30-Jan-2023 10:55

Hi,

I know that zeronet will allow you to use the Chorus ONT's wifi but am not sure on zeronet's performance.

dyllos

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#3029345 30-Jan-2023 10:58

So, if one ISP can use the ONT, then can't ALL of them??

stick

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#3029348 30-Jan-2023 11:03

dyllos:
So, if one ISP can use the ONT, then can't ALL of them??

I'm pretty sure they can, they just choose not to :(

insane

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#3029349 30-Jan-2023 11:03

dyllos:
So, if one ISP can use the ONT, then can't ALL of them??

It's available for all ISPs, but many will chose not to do it for several good reasons. But in certain situations, it's fine.

You'll likely get better support and options and wifi coverage if you choose to use the ISP supplied router.

dyllos

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#3029351 30-Jan-2023 11:05

IT seems like such a waste of resources to have to get another router when the fibre router can/has the required functionality... why would an ISP NOT use it a gateway?? are they just ignorant or may there be another reason??

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djtOtago

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#3029383 30-Jan-2023 11:57

Hello customer support.

I need you to.
Port forward my Plex server, Security Camera, Game server, My Wiget dodad thingy service.

And change the address space the DHCP server uses because it conflicts with something.

and while you are at it change the DNS server settings because I don't want to use your DNS servers anymore.

and install a VPN server.

and could you setup a vlan or sub network to run my IoT / smart home stuff on.

michaelmurfy

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#3029384 30-Jan-2023 11:59

Because for most people the ONT is not installed in the right place to give optimal WiFi coverage. I personally would hate it if my ISP used my ONT as the router and would find another ISP.

It is an option, but it is rarely used because there are too many drawbacks. ISP's can provide nice mesh units and feature added benefits by not using the ONT as the router.

Also, you do know you don't have to get a router from your ISP right and can re-use routers right?

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dyllos

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#3029386 30-Jan-2023 12:03

Zeronet has confirmed they use just the ONT to provide internet. Electric Kiwi says they cannot, but will look into it.

I have messaged Chorus to ask why they are not promoting the use of just the ONT when it has all the hardware there. it is so sad that so many resources are wasted by having two boxes with essentially the same hardware in them running next to each. And using double the power... it adds up when it's millions of connections...

michaelmurfy

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#3029387 30-Jan-2023 12:09

dyllos: I have messaged Chorus to ask why they are not promoting the use of just the ONT when it has all the hardware there. it is so sad that so many resources are wasted by having two boxes with essentially the same hardware in them running next to each. And using double the power... it adds up when it's millions of connections...

That is not at all true... The Chorus ONT may be OK for slower connections (50Mbit / 300Mbit) but it's WiFi is weak. It does not have "essentially the same hardware".

Also you can have multiple ISP's on a single ONT. Power use of routers / the ONT is next to nothing too.

dyllos

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#3029440 30-Jan-2023 12:25

Okay, thank you for the reasons why ONT may not be so desirable - they make sense for some, sure. It'd still be nice for ISPs to give both options. We certainly do not need any fancy stuff and even prefer ethernet over wifi. The other obvious question is then why Chorus doesn't just use a simpler ONT if much of it's hardware isn't going to be used. Anyhow, thanks for the answers - I am now more informed than I was :)

Just conservatively on the power use issue: 20W * 24h * 1,000,000connections * 365d = 175,200,000kW/h/year = not a small amount of energy

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michaelmurfy

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#3029542 30-Jan-2023 12:35

The ONT does not use 20W so you're incorrect there too. Compared to the huge amount of power the legacy phone system used (the NEAX in the exchange along with the DSL equipment) the ONT and supporting hardware back in the exchange in-fact uses a tonne less power.

Supporting both options from an ISP point of view isn't ideal either... You're talking 2 totally separate platforms. For Hyperfibre ISP's will support both options but customers have been requesting the ONT be put into passthrough mode as again, it isn't ideal to be used as a router.

Customers like having strong WiFi in their house to support the growing amount of connected devices. You're never going to get that from a small ONT and in apartment buildings for example the ONT may not actually be anywhere near the apartment but instead they run Ethernet from the ONT to the apartment. There are too many reasons to list off why using the ONT for a mainstream ISP just isn't an option.

nztim

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#3029546 30-Jan-2023 12:56

Chorus offer to RSPs, RSPs decide if they are going to use the feature or not, most RSPs choose not to.

Think about it, Imagine asking your RSP to change your wifi password?

Any views expressed on these forums are my own and don't necessarily reflect those of my employer.

michaeln

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#3029550 30-Jan-2023 13:11

dyllos:

IT seems like such a waste of resources to have to get another router when the fibre router can/has the required functionality... why would an ISP NOT use it a gateway?? are they just ignorant or may there be another reason??

Where is the ONT? Chorus normally put it near the edge of the section. Often, in the garage. Often, in a nice, secure metal cabinet, otherwise known as a Faraday cage (i.e., the WiFi is useless). What WiFi does the ONT support? a/b/g/n/ac, 6, 6E, ... ?

Is the ONT WiFi any good?

How does the RSP manage the built-in router? Without compromising Chorus's management of the ONT? How does the RSP ensure that Chorus can't interfere with the RSP's management of the router?

The ONT has a router built in because in most countries the access provider (LFC in NZ) and the service provider (RSP in NZ) are the same entity. They don't make a simple, layer 2 only ONT.

Chorus is NOT ALLOWED to be an RSP.

Chorus buy the cheapest ONT they can, which comes with extra stuff built in (router, WiFi), because excluding it would cost more owing to manufacturing economies of scale (special SKU just for Chorus).

What happens if you want to use your own router, and don't want to go through the built in ONT router?

What happens if Chorus change the ONT for a different model, with different router functionality? How much cost and pain does that cause the RSP?

cyril7

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#3029667 30-Jan-2023 14:32

michaeln:

SNIP

How does the RSP manage the built-in router? Without compromising Chorus's management of the ONT? How does the RSP ensure that Chorus can't interfere with the RSP's management of the router?

The ONT has a router built in because in most countries the access provider (LFC in NZ) and the service provider (RSP in NZ) are the same entity. They don't make a simple, layer 2 only ONT.

Chorus is NOT ALLOWED to be an RSP.

Not disagreeing with you, but just pointing out Chorus does have simple Layer2 ONT in an SFP format, and Chorus does have a portal to enable RSP's the ability to manage the RGW aspects of the ONT should they wish to.

There are also many manufactures of SFP ONT modules, although not all compatible with Nokia's ISAM's

Cyril

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