Fan Pass - I'll Pass On That

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#1783778 17-May-2017 16:48

ockel:

kobiak:

ockel:

And if you recall the issue was that an individual took their STB to the rugby club for all to watch. The product purchased was for home broadcast - not a pub or club (and those organisations pay an arm and a leg to show on premises). If the entire rugby club all went around to the individuals home to watch then I'm sure that Sky would have struggled to make a case. There is nothing in the terms and conditions that would suggest that having 1000 people over to your HOME to watch is in violation of the terms and conditions - unless you charged people to attend your party. Have 1000 people over to your place to watch a game. Good luck fitting them in and good luck with cleaning up the mess afterwards!

yeah I remember that. Not sure what was the end result. As you said Sky pointed out that it was not used for the purpose of home use. Does 1000 people watching it at my farm field on 20m long screen, fit for purpose? surely free. sky won't be happy I guess.

Maybe not happy but possibly violating terms and conditions. It does say within the home. A farm field may be a stretch.

They cant dictate me where on my land I use skybox, right? :) So as I said, this is lame area and no-one knows how to play it. Copyright holders scream for stealing, stream watchers insist they're not doing anything wrong, etc.

+5-10 years and VPN, DNS unblockers will be banned, like in China :( and I will move to pacific islands to enjoy life and not TV/Internet.

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ockel

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#1783785 17-May-2017 17:03

kobiak:

ockel:

kobiak:

ockel:

And if you recall the issue was that an individual took their STB to the rugby club for all to watch. The product purchased was for home broadcast - not a pub or club (and those organisations pay an arm and a leg to show on premises). If the entire rugby club all went around to the individuals home to watch then I'm sure that Sky would have struggled to make a case. There is nothing in the terms and conditions that would suggest that having 1000 people over to your HOME to watch is in violation of the terms and conditions - unless you charged people to attend your party. Have 1000 people over to your place to watch a game. Good luck fitting them in and good luck with cleaning up the mess afterwards!

yeah I remember that. Not sure what was the end result. As you said Sky pointed out that it was not used for the purpose of home use. Does 1000 people watching it at my farm field on 20m long screen, fit for purpose? surely free. sky won't be happy I guess.

Maybe not happy but possibly violating terms and conditions. It does say within the home. A farm field may be a stretch.

They cant dictate me where on my land I use skybox, right? :) So as I said, this is lame area and no-one knows how to play it. Copyright holders scream for stealing, stream watchers insist they're not doing anything wrong, etc.

+5-10 years and VPN, DNS unblockers will be banned, like in China :( and I will move to pacific islands to enjoy life and not TV/Internet.

If its not within the home, as stated in the T's & C's then it could terminate your service. As with any contract if you're in violation of the contract then termination and remedies could be applied. Do you genuinely believe that using it in the field is within the home? The use of home rather than property is pretty clear here. Not a lame area, just a binding contract.

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tripp

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#1783802 17-May-2017 17:35

Wiggum:

tripp:

From the broadcaster. The broadcaster needs to supply bandwidth (or get a 3rd party too). Bandwidth cost money which the broadcaster needs to pay. You accessing the content for free does have a cost to it. Someone always has to pay for the bandwidth/resources you are using to watch the stream, if you are not paying but using the service (that has a cost to it) and you are not paying that cost then that is stealing.

It would be the same if you found some way to get unlimited LTE data on your mobile phone that you should be paying for but you're not.

hmmm. I don't buy it. Some games that I watch on are "freeview channels" overseas. Broadcasted over the internet for free to people living only in the UK and USA for example. To watch these same games here in NZ I have to pay a fee to Sky. There is no stealing, because if I was in the UK or USA, or even sometimes in Australia I would get it for free.

Well Yes we know you don't buy it, this is what we are talking about.

So there 2 different kinds of streaming, the 1st is from the broadcaster from their website or app etc. The 2nd is someone just showing it live on facebook. Lets cover the 1st and then the 2nd.

1) The difference here is that the broadcaster maybe supplying it "free to air" in the UK/US/AU but they are supplying it to people in those geo area's. You come along and based in NZ (or some other area outside of the FTA zones) and by-pass the geo locks and watch the stream, you are still stealing the bandwidth as you are NOT IN A FTA ZONE. The broadcaster budgets to stream to their FTA zones not to anyone by-passing Geo locks. You are using a service you are not authorised to use, that service/broadcast rights have a cost. You are not paying the cost then you are stealing.

2) Streaming from someone on facebook. I personally see this a little different, the issue with this is copyright infringement and someone making a gain from work that is not theirs. This gain could be money or could be reputation/followers etc on social media. Is it still wrong? Yes very wrong for the person streaming it, also wrong for the person that is viewing it. Who should the rights holder go after? If you take out the streamer it has a flow on effect.

Like i said before, media rights are an a*** currently but it is what it is.

Also if you want to have 1000 people at your house to watch the rugby and it is a private home then you are free to do that (however you might find this a fire risk), the issue broadcasters have is when you run a pub/club/public event and have a residential account.

kobiak

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#1783810 17-May-2017 18:02

to make it even more complicated and interesting (not sure if it was covered in the past)

It pretty easy to do "your own" skyGo version, with current technology, Record current live game and allow internet access to media for your own purposes only. Does that qualifies as "stealing" too? What If I will record all satellite feed from channel, transcode and stream on-the-go for my own purposes, is that stealing too?

I guess this might violate TnCs, but really? I paid for this, I want to watch recorded game on mobile while in the most important room in house, can I? Most likely not.

meh :(

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ockel

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#1783820 17-May-2017 18:38

kobiak:

to make it even more complicated and interesting (not sure if it was covered in the past)

It pretty easy to do "your own" skyGo version, with current technology, Record current live game and allow internet access to media for your own purposes only. Does that qualifies as "stealing" too? What If I will record all satellite feed from channel, transcode and stream on-the-go for my own purposes, is that stealing too?

I guess this might violate TnCs, but really? I paid for this, I want to watch recorded game on mobile while in the most important room in house, can I? Most likely not.

meh :(

You really think that you're paying for the ability to record all the satellite feed from a channel, transcoding and streaming? I'm guessing that there is at some stage decoding of the encrypted signal as you're unlike the decrypt it on the fly on your mobile, right? Do you think that might contravene the t's & c's? Just cos you're paying for a service doesnt mean that you have the right to violate the t's & c's, does it? And if you have to think about that question then perhaps it asks and answers itself.

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kobiak

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#1783951 17-May-2017 23:38

ockel:

kobiak:

to make it even more complicated and interesting (not sure if it was covered in the past)

It pretty easy to do "your own" skyGo version, with current technology, Record current live game and allow internet access to media for your own purposes only. Does that qualifies as "stealing" too? What If I will record all satellite feed from channel, transcode and stream on-the-go for my own purposes, is that stealing too?

I guess this might violate TnCs, but really? I paid for this, I want to watch recorded game on mobile while in the most important room in house, can I? Most likely not.

meh :(

You really think that you're paying for the ability to record all the satellite feed from a channel, transcoding and streaming? I'm guessing that there is at some stage decoding of the encrypted signal as you're unlike the decrypt it on the fly on your mobile, right? Do you think that might contravene the t's & c's? Just cos you're paying for a service doesnt mean that you have the right to violate the t's & c's, does it? And if you have to think about that question then perhaps it asks and answers itself.

My point is that if I got the service/good, it's up to my discretion how and when I use it.

If i purchase audio in google music, I can play it everywhere I like. If I purchased an access to satellite/streaming feed, I want to play/watch it when and how I want.

So users with mysky+ boxes can record and watch video from the box, how it's different if they want to access it from mobile too (that recorded content on their box, can they copy it to NAS and play on DLNA device)? I guess it's violation of TnC's but not the law. So back to my initial question, do stream watchers break any law (here in NZ)? Just keep in mind that they already paid for the right to watch content.

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ockel

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#1783979 18-May-2017 07:43

kobiak:

ockel:

kobiak:

to make it even more complicated and interesting (not sure if it was covered in the past)

It pretty easy to do "your own" skyGo version, with current technology, Record current live game and allow internet access to media for your own purposes only. Does that qualifies as "stealing" too? What If I will record all satellite feed from channel, transcode and stream on-the-go for my own purposes, is that stealing too?

I guess this might violate TnCs, but really? I paid for this, I want to watch recorded game on mobile while in the most important room in house, can I? Most likely not.

meh :(

You really think that you're paying for the ability to record all the satellite feed from a channel, transcoding and streaming? I'm guessing that there is at some stage decoding of the encrypted signal as you're unlike the decrypt it on the fly on your mobile, right? Do you think that might contravene the t's & c's? Just cos you're paying for a service doesnt mean that you have the right to violate the t's & c's, does it? And if you have to think about that question then perhaps it asks and answers itself.

My point is that if I got the service/good, it's up to my discretion how and when I use it.

If i purchase audio in google music, I can play it everywhere I like. If I purchased an access to satellite/streaming feed, I want to play/watch it when and how I want.

So users with mysky+ boxes can record and watch video from the box, how it's different if they want to access it from mobile too (that recorded content on their box, can they copy it to NAS and play on DLNA device)? I guess it's violation of TnC's but not the law. So back to my initial question, do stream watchers break any law (here in NZ)? Just keep in mind that they already paid for the right to watch content.

I think that you're confusing yourself here. When you listen to a radio or a paid streaming audio you dont have the right to record (and certainly not the right to retransmit). [Note the distinction between Spotify and Pandora (or at least the Rdio service which is the ad and ad free Pandora service) - the latter cant play your selected or requested songs as it would be in breach of copyright hence the radio-style service]. Similar for video - a paid broadcast or streaming service you dont have the right to record and retransmit. And use of PVR's like MySky are clearly stated as not for use as permanent storage, you're agreeing to record, watch and delete after use, else the paytv provider is likely to be in breach of its contract with the content owner as it hasnt paid for the perpetual right to view the content.

When you buy Google audio you have purchased the right to listen to a copy of the music (check your t's and c's as to putting it on a media server and reusing for personal use - and especially simultaneous use) but if you then share that with all and sundry then you are clearly in breach of copyright. If you purchase a DVD - and make it available to share with the world then you're in breach of copyright.

Dont confuse yourself over purchasing content and purchasing the right (or using an ad-supported service) to view content via a service. Its not that hard to understand. Honestly. Its common sense and when its not common sense they even put it in fine print for the idiots.

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rb99

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#1793650 2-Jun-2017 12:20

This probably isn't the best place for this, http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11867523 but still found it interesting / fun / wishful thinking. The last para is pretty accurate I reckon. Looking forward to the new boss at Sky and his new prices.

Edit - why do my links never work ?

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Rikkitic

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#1793652 2-Jun-2017 12:28

That is a brilliant article. It says exactly what I have tried to say and been bashed for, and it says it much better.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

ockel

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#1793653 2-Jun-2017 12:31

rb99:

This probably isn't the best place for this, http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11867523 but still found it interesting / fun / wishful thinking. The last para is pretty accurate I reckon. Looking forward to the new boss at Sky and his new prices.

Edit - why do my links never work ?

hahahaha. I remember the blogger on Throng saying that Fellet was departing Sky and that was more than 18 months ago. Throng is dead and the CEO is still there.

But seriously if you followed the writers thinking of the whole kit'n'kaboodle for $30/mth - and EVERY household in NZ subscribed then Sky would get about half the revenue it currently gets. And just covers its costs before any spend on capital investment. Umm. Say whayt?

I'm thinking there is a good reason he is a lowly paid columnist in a dying medium. But as he said he is qualified to School Cert level economics - which is about the level of a plank of wood.

And he failed to mention that Lightbox couldnt get people to pay $13/mth so now its given away for free. Ever wonder why that is?

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rb99

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#1793655 2-Jun-2017 12:34

I could comment about planks of wood and the White House - but I won't.

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

rb99

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Rikkitic

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#1793656 2-Jun-2017 12:34

Stay tuned as Sky's numbers continue to drop. Soon they will be wishing they had half their current revenue.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

rb99

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#1793663 2-Jun-2017 12:40

Suppose its a bit ironic really, by the time I've paid for Netflix, Amazon US AND UK (still not sure why) and Getflix I must be up there at the same monthly as Sky. Or maybe not, can't be bothered working it out. Luckily I'm not remotely into sport or I'd be bankrupt.

“The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” -John Kenneth Galbraith

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tdgeek

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#1793664 2-Jun-2017 12:41

That was the worst and funniest article I have read for ages. Wrong on so many levels. I thought the author was still at school, going by his School Cert comment and the wording and ideas he had.

Now if Fellet was able to call up Optus at any time and say hey buddy, that Optus contract, I want to change it to match 2017, and he could, then a lot would change, price wise. And its clear to see its ONLY about the money. I liked the positive comment on the quality of Sky offerings which were later debunked.

Its good to read that the $13 streaming options could be used for Sky, everything for $13 a month.

Friday Funny

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#1793667 2-Jun-2017 12:47

Rikkitic:

Stay tuned as Sky's numbers continue to drop. Soon they will be wishing they had half their current revenue.

Going streaming only will allow costs to drop a huge amount. But they cannot do that while under contract, which expires next year or 2019. Then it can get real and be streaming only, and priced accordingly. Then everyone will be happy as its 2017 technology and 2017 pricing. Win-Win (Apart from sport which wont be $13 a month)

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