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73 posts

Master Geek


# 43575 21-Oct-2009 10:56
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Hi
Firstly if this has been asked already I appologise.  Please steer me to the thread.

I have standard Sky digital at home.  In the morning I tend to watch the Breakfast show on TV1.  I leave the decoder on all day while at work.  When I return at night time and look at the EPG 100% of the time I have "Listings not available".

I have contacted sky about this.  They have been out once updated a few seting and looked at the dish etc.  Still the problem remained.

Finally after I kept complianing someone at sky said it was because I was leaving the decoder on TV 1 it was not updating the EPG.  If I left it on a Sky Channel it would not have the problem.   REALLY!!!!

I tried it and it seemed to work but I can't understand the logic.

It seems like a fault or a bug to me.  Has anyone else had this issue?

Thanks
Patrick

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267 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 265597 21-Oct-2009 11:17
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Do you have a MySKY1 or a non-PVR SKY decoder? I'm guessing non-PVR : the MySKY1 does have a problem (that is about to be fixed in A161) where it loses all listings and has to be rebooted to recover.

On non-PVR (legacy) decoders there are two issues:

1) every day at UTC midnight (currently 1pm NZT) the decoders drop and attempt to reacquire the whole cached EPG
2) if the decoder is sitting on a Freeview stream (e.g. on TV1) only the Freeview EPG data will be acquired, i.e. no SKY channel data. You have to go back to a SKY stream or channel to repopulate the EPG

There isn't an easy fix for this. SKY can't afford to pay Freeview to carry all its EPG data (even if they would take it) so the best way forward is to re-engineer the decoders so they don't drop all their data, but the decoder software is 10 years old and quite complex.



cisconz
1214 posts

Uber Geek

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Lifetime subscriber

  # 265666 21-Oct-2009 14:17
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On a Sky Decoder they do not use freeview streams. They re broadcast it encrypted.


Edit: Just been told from a confirmed source that Sky is dropping their encrypted re broadcasts of Freeview channels to use the standard freeview ones.
Nice to see someone conserving bandwidth.
Now if they could just get channel 199 working on the old pace 620 decoders




Hmmmm


 
 
 
 




73 posts

Master Geek


  # 265694 21-Oct-2009 15:14
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manaia: Do you have a MySKY1 or a non-PVR SKY decoder? I'm guessing non-PVR : the MySKY1 does have a problem (that is about to be fixed in A161) where it loses all listings and has to be rebooted to recover.

On non-PVR (legacy) decoders there are two issues:

1) every day at UTC midnight (currently 1pm NZT) the decoders drop and attempt to reacquire the whole cached EPG
2) if the decoder is sitting on a Freeview stream (e.g. on TV1) only the Freeview EPG data will be acquired, i.e. no SKY channel data. You have to go back to a SKY stream or channel to repopulate the EPG

There isn't an easy fix for this. SKY can't afford to pay Freeview to carry all its EPG data (even if they would take it) so the best way forward is to re-engineer the decoders so they don't drop all their data, but the decoder software is 10 years old and quite complex.




I can confirm I do not have MySky just the standard digital decoder.  Does not sound like there is going to be a solution anytime soon

188 posts

Master Geek


  # 265745 21-Oct-2009 18:25
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Finally after I kept complianing someone at sky said it was because I was leaving the decoder on TV 1 it was not updating the EPG.  If I left it on a Sky Channel it would not have the problem.   REALLY!!!!


Thanks
Patrick


This may not help, but just letting you know you're not the only one having that problem.

My sister in law has had the same problem for a while now, but in her case, most of the time, it's when she leaves the channel on Stratos (I don't know whether they would consider this as a Sky channel or not).

I know Sky were onto the problem at first and called her saying they were doing some testing, and after that they were no longer in touch. So she still doesn't know what caused the issue and if it will ever be fixed. Last time she called, they blamed a software problem, and promised to call back but never did.

Jen

624 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 267018 26-Oct-2009 20:10
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Its possible its the model of decoder you have, If you have an old "Pace" decoder, the ones with the smartcard sticking out the front, you need to call sky and have it replaced, these decoders have a firmware update issue and need to be plugged into a super computer back at sky headquarters, as they have trouble updating their firmware over the air. Maybe the firmware update will address the EPG program? Also there are copies Tv1 and Tv2 on the same sky transponder unencrypted along with other encrypted sky channels, there is also tv3 and c4 together on another sky transponder encrypted, sky does not use the freeview feeds of tv1, 2, 3 or c4. so theres no reason why the EPG shouldnt work if it wasnt a firmware issue in the decoder. However sky uses the freeview feeds for tvnz6, tvnz7, stratos, maori tv, and tereo. so if your decoder is tuned to one of those then expect only get EPG data for those channels in your skydecoder.

6434 posts

Uber Geek


  # 267069 26-Oct-2009 22:11
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I used to have the same issue when I had regular sky. since I upgraded to Mysky that issue has dissapeared.

188 posts

Master Geek


  # 267106 27-Oct-2009 06:58
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gareth41: Its possible its the model of decoder you have, If you have an old "Pace" decoder, the ones with the smartcard sticking out the front, you need to call sky and have it replaced, these decoders have a firmware update issue and need to be plugged into a super computer back at sky headquarters, as they have trouble updating their firmware over the air. Maybe the firmware update will address the EPG program?


Cheers for that. I think sister in law has the silver decoder? I know that when she first started calling Sky, the guy said it was a software bug and the firmware would need to be updated, but some other person from Sky called her to say everything was in order and the firmware was the most recent one. I wonder if the issue is also linked the some booked programs suddenly changing to the Preview channel a few seconds after the channel switches over lol.

I'll let her know about the software bit though!

 
 
 
 


624 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 267110 27-Oct-2009 07:23
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I had one of those old pace decoders with card sticking out front, usually turned whole tv off at wall at night to save power, turned back on in morning and started watching discovery and decoder would sometimes reboot and switch back to preview, we since got mysky installed and what i posted previously (re firmware issues) thats what the sky tech told me so im not too sure about other decoders, we had another Motorola decoder at the time with multiroom but the tech didnt mention anything about that one just left it, so im assuming the EPG problems are related to Pace decoders? We havent noticed any issues with our Motorola decoder, the Motorola is certainly a lot faster to scroll thru the EPG than the old Pace we had, it must have a faster processor.

188 posts

Master Geek


  # 270232 5-Nov-2009 09:38
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Quick update on this.

The sister in law emailed Sky a few days ago for a follow up on the whole decoder issue. She's just emailed me to let me know what happened...

She got a call this morning from the same lady at Sky she'd been dealing with before, who now sounded pretty offended and annoyed with the whole thing (although the email was polite) saying the reason why no one contacted her was because there was nothing to say, since there was no planned software update. She did mention that they are planning on updating the firmware but couldn't give a specific date, although "it's not too long away".

The girl didn't really spell it out but implied the problem was due to the software issue so it wasn't Sky's fault. According to her, paying a subscription entitles people to watch Sky, nothing else attached to it (ie. booking channels, having access to the EPG ect). I wasn't aware that Sky had no control on those parts though.

Sky first tried to blame the DVD recorder for it (she occasionally records some shows on Documentary) as they do not encourage it for copy protection issues, but quickly changed the subject back to the firmware update when she was told it did also happen when watching TV (albeit a booked program) without the DVD recorder being set. The lady actually got offended there apparently cos it sounded like she was taken aback lol.

Sister in law asked for a credit for the inconvenience (switching to Preview channel when a program is booked is now happening as often as about 4 to 5 times a week in her case), which was refused on the basis that "it's a problem that will happen when you book a program and its's not specific to the Pace silver box, as the black Motorola one is affected too". Booking a program is a feature they offer, which currently isn't working, and they won't admit to it in full. She didn't get an apology for the inconvenience either.

Not very happy but I guess there's nothing to do at the moment until their software update.

Jen

624 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 270280 5-Nov-2009 11:11
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maybe sky are purposely doing this to get people to switch to mysk hdi, I have mysky and never get epg issues, however i must admit that my mysky decoder has been sitting gathering dust for the past few months, i pulled the smartcard out and im using it in a thrid party decoder/receiever aka "dreambox" with a much larger hdd than the mysky, thats the main advantage.

267 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 270298 5-Nov-2009 11:51
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gareth41: Its possible its the model of decoder you have, If you have an old "Pace" decoder, the ones with the smartcard sticking out the front, you need to call sky and have it replaced, these decoders have a firmware update issue and need to be plugged into a super computer back at sky headquarters, as they have trouble updating their firmware over the air. Maybe the firmware update will address the EPG program? Also there are copies Tv1 and Tv2 on the same sky transponder unencrypted along with other encrypted sky channels, there is also tv3 and c4 together on another sky transponder encrypted, sky does not use the freeview feeds of tv1, 2, 3 or c4. so theres no reason why the EPG shouldnt work if it wasnt a firmware issue in the decoder. However sky uses the freeview feeds for tvnz6, tvnz7, stratos, maori tv, and tereo. so if your decoder is tuned to one of those then expect only get EPG data for those channels in your skydecoder.


There's no fault on SKY Pace decoders around firmware I know about that requires them to be swapped out. SKY now mostly uses Freeview feeds of TV1 and 2 so leaving decoders on those channels overnight will empty the EPG of all SKY EPG data as Freeview doesn't (in general) carry SKY EPG data.

267 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 270301 5-Nov-2009 11:58
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jen1001: Quick update on this.

The sister in law emailed Sky a few days ago for a follow up on the whole decoder issue. She's just emailed me to let me know what happened...

She got a call this morning from the same lady at Sky she'd been dealing with before, who now sounded pretty offended and annoyed with the whole thing (although the email was polite) saying the reason why no one contacted her was because there was nothing to say, since there was no planned software update. She did mention that they are planning on updating the firmware but couldn't give a specific date, although "it's not too long away".

The girl didn't really spell it out but implied the problem was due to the software issue so it wasn't Sky's fault. According to her, paying a subscription entitles people to watch Sky, nothing else attached to it (ie. booking channels, having access to the EPG ect). I wasn't aware that Sky had no control on those parts though.

Sky first tried to blame the DVD recorder for it (she occasionally records some shows on Documentary) as they do not encourage it for copy protection issues, but quickly changed the subject back to the firmware update when she was told it did also happen when watching TV (albeit a booked program) without the DVD recorder being set. The lady actually got offended there apparently cos it sounded like she was taken aback lol.

Sister in law asked for a credit for the inconvenience (switching to Preview channel when a program is booked is now happening as often as about 4 to 5 times a week in her case), which was refused on the basis that "it's a problem that will happen when you book a program and its's not specific to the Pace silver box, as the black Motorola one is affected too". Booking a program is a feature they offer, which currently isn't working, and they won't admit to it in full. She didn't get an apology for the inconvenience either.

Not very happy but I guess there's nothing to do at the moment until their software update.

Jen


Any software crash in the EPG will result in the EPG restarting on channel zero. There have been several causes of crashes identified, some of which have already been fixed in previous software release. The current major problem is a crash around booked programmes: this affects all non-MySKY decoders. A (hopefully) final fix for this is due to go out in rel 0390 this month. Sorry for the problem.

267 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 270306 5-Nov-2009 12:12
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gareth41: maybe sky are purposely doing this to get people to switch to mysk hdi, I have mysky and never get epg issues, however i must admit that my mysky decoder has been sitting gathering dust for the past few months, i pulled the smartcard out and im using it in a thrid party decoder/receiever aka "dreambox" with a much larger hdd than the mysky, thats the main advantage.


I think SKY (like customers) would much rather the problem wasn't there at all. MySKY has a completely different codebase to non-MySKYs so problems are usually very different. Out of interest, which DM box do you have?

624 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 270336 5-Nov-2009 14:02
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Out of interest, which DM box do you have?


ive got a dm600s with ide to sata adaptor so i can use sata hard drives in the box as ide only go upto 320gb, however will be looking to upgrade to a dm8000 s hd receiever with multiple dvb-s2 tuners, as at the moment the dm600s only has one tuner and cant do hd.  another advantage to using the DB is i can get every single freeview chan, plus the australian channels sbs/chan10 etc.. all on the same EPG with sky. the only downside to using the DB is sky payperview/on demand will not work but doesnt bother me anyway as i hardly ever purchase a box office movie.  I also understand that once i get a box with multiple tuners, I still will not be able to watch an australian channel while recording a sky channel due to polarisation issues, sky being on horizontal and aussie being on verticle.  I must also add that the CAM im using is mgcamd, it seems to keep the skycard updated (so far anyway) so it doesnt expire and need a re-activation in the original mysky decoder. I bought my dreambox from www.satboy.com and is an origianl dream multimedia unit not a chinese clone.

267 posts

Ultimate Geek


  # 270367 5-Nov-2009 15:08
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Thanks, that's interesting. I have my hands on a DM8000S as well as an 800. I think that the new SKY quad output LNB enables access to multiple satellites on both polarities, but that depends on the built-in multiswitch in the MySKY HDi. I guess it wouldn't work for the DM8000.

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