Time to give electricity the flick?

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448 posts

Ultimate Geek
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#2107911 15-Oct-2018 08:10

Moved to Fixie over the weekend after last week's generation prices (especially over the weekend). We spent more on power last week than what we did during the winter this year. The cost of generation will be $0.078 a unit for the next 6 months.

SBQ

104 posts

Master Geek
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#2107945 15-Oct-2018 09:18

https://scontent.fchc1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44136744_10156924548750739_3753918909829349376_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&oh=7b712a0d45397b20e1b5907730456afc&oe=5C15398D

Flick customers in Christchurch are hurting this morning @ $10.14/kw/hr !!!!!

I was glad running the heat pump on a timer from 6am to 7am at $0.1155/kw/hr with Genesis.

SBQ

104 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 13

#2107955 15-Oct-2018 09:40

voy1d:

SBQ:

I've had a quick check at Flick dashboard and it shows the meter off the chart. I was a previous Flick customer and still able to login now with only just the meter indicator showing (no # display of actual pricing). Can anyone confirm current pricing for those in Christchurch?

I've posted this before but I'll post again cause it's buried in past pages.

https://www.electricityinfo.co.nz has the current wholesale market data available for you, for Christchurch a solid index node to use will be ISL2201 (Islington 220kV bus.) However you might be on a different node in Christchurch you can go to the My Meter page on the EA website and put in your address (or ICP number) and get the GXP that you are attached to. Using that you can get the actual price from Electricity Info (including the realtime (five minute dispatch), Short Schedule (next eight trading periods) or Long Schedule (next 72 trading periods). I recommend using the NRSS (for short) or NRSL (for long) versions.

Just looked and I don't see where the pricing fully reflect's Flicks' over $10 kw/hr price now in Christchurch. The Islington node shows $257 now but to compare when Flick was over $10 kwh, my guess is the spot rate was 4 times going rate now. So assuming at $1000/mwh we have $1/kwr spot rate, what is the actual make up of the $9 difference in kwr ?? Something doesn't add up with Flick and that's the core reason for switching to another supplier.

nickb800

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#2107976 15-Oct-2018 10:06

SBQ:

voy1d:

SBQ:

I've had a quick check at Flick dashboard and it shows the meter off the chart. I was a previous Flick customer and still able to login now with only just the meter indicator showing (no # display of actual pricing). Can anyone confirm current pricing for those in Christchurch?

I've posted this before but I'll post again cause it's buried in past pages.

https://www.electricityinfo.co.nz has the current wholesale market data available for you, for Christchurch a solid index node to use will be ISL2201 (Islington 220kV bus.) However you might be on a different node in Christchurch you can go to the My Meter page on the EA website and put in your address (or ICP number) and get the GXP that you are attached to. Using that you can get the actual price from Electricity Info (including the realtime (five minute dispatch), Short Schedule (next eight trading periods) or Long Schedule (next 72 trading periods). I recommend using the NRSS (for short) or NRSL (for long) versions.

Just looked and I don't see where the pricing fully reflect's Flicks' over $10 kw/hr price now in Christchurch. The Islington node shows $257 now but to compare when Flick was over $10 kwh, my guess is the spot rate was 4 times going rate now. So assuming at $1000/mwh we have $1/kwr spot rate, what is the actual make up of the $9 difference in kwr ?? Something doesn't add up with Flick and that's the core reason for switching to another supplier.

There's several spot markets with different time scales so that's why you can get apparent inconsistencies. $10/Kwh is $10,000/MWh which IIRC means an infeasibility - these will rarely mainfest in the final bill

This comment is a better explanation https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=141&topicid=173453#1310712

voy1d

178 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 35

#2107993 15-Oct-2018 10:32

nickb800:

SBQ:

voy1d:

SBQ:

I've had a quick check at Flick dashboard and it shows the meter off the chart. I was a previous Flick customer and still able to login now with only just the meter indicator showing (no # display of actual pricing). Can anyone confirm current pricing for those in Christchurch?

I've posted this before but I'll post again cause it's buried in past pages.

https://www.electricityinfo.co.nz has the current wholesale market data available for you, for Christchurch a solid index node to use will be ISL2201 (Islington 220kV bus.) However you might be on a different node in Christchurch you can go to the My Meter page on the EA website and put in your address (or ICP number) and get the GXP that you are attached to. Using that you can get the actual price from Electricity Info (including the realtime (five minute dispatch), Short Schedule (next eight trading periods) or Long Schedule (next 72 trading periods). I recommend using the NRSS (for short) or NRSL (for long) versions.

Just looked and I don't see where the pricing fully reflect's Flicks' over $10 kw/hr price now in Christchurch. The Islington node shows $257 now but to compare when Flick was over $10 kwh, my guess is the spot rate was 4 times going rate now. So assuming at $1000/mwh we have $1/kwr spot rate, what is the actual make up of the $9 difference in kwr ?? Something doesn't add up with Flick and that's the core reason for switching to another supplier.

There's several spot markets with different time scales so that's why you can get apparent inconsistencies. $10/Kwh is $10,000/MWh which IIRC means an infeasibility - these will rarely mainfest in the final bill

This comment is a better explanation https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=141&topicid=173453#1310712

No, there is only one spot market.

There are a number of schedules but the relevant ones for consumers are the PRS, NRS and RTP schedules. PRS is a price responsive schedule that provides trading period level prices (30 minute) and includes the calculation of customers bids based on price responsive changes. NRS is the non-response schedule and assumes that demand is inelastic and provides trading period level prices (30 minute). Both PRS and NRS are forecast schedules. These have two iterations the short (current trading period + next seven) and the long (trading periods 8 through 72) so those are the different time horizons.

RTP is the Real Time Pricing (or five minute) and is not a complete solve of the market but an operational solve. All prices are in $/MWh so divide by 1,000 to get the kWh price.

This is purely the wholesale spot price (not generation!@@!) so you'd need to add lines charges + metering etc to get your flick price.

As to what price flick uses in their app when I was last with them they sometimes used the NRSS price and sometimes the RTP price (it became infuriating because they didn't tell you which one they were using).

michaelmurfy

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#2108137 15-Oct-2018 12:48

@SBQ Yes you're misunderstanding this... Read their blog post: https://news.flickelectric.co.nz/2017/05/15/infeasible-pricing-the-low-down/

It is actually a good time to change to Fixie - Flick are an excellent power provider and Fixie is often cheaper than other fixed rates (from my experience - as I've changed over to it too after comparing everyone).

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SBQ

104 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 13

#2108325 15-Oct-2018 17:16

michaelmurfy:

@SBQ Yes you're misunderstanding this... Read their blog post: https://news.flickelectric.co.nz/2017/05/15/infeasible-pricing-the-low-down/

It is actually a good time to change to Fixie - Flick are an excellent power provider and Fixie is often cheaper than other fixed rates (from my experience - as I've changed over to it too after comparing everyone).

I highly doubt Fixie would be lower - link doesn't show any pricing for fixed 6 month term (any idea?). It's a bit like Powershop where you buy power at a fixed price to use over the term. The way we use power we take advantage of off peak night rate which in Christchurch starts after 9pm to 7am daily. @ 11.55c/kw/hr I think it's hard to beat this fixed rate. If we get an electric car, I want to charge it at that low rate, not a price somewhere in between.

As for the Infeasible Pricing - it's a poor excuse for Flick to say they can't determine a price for their customers. voy1d explained, Flick doesn't give a clear answer on what pricing schedule they use (PRS, NRS and RTP) and as I pointed out, their Flick App doesn't give a true calculation of their price when we look at the spot wholesale rate. You can't have a spot rate that is $1/kW/hr and end up having the app show $5 or $10/kw/hr. You can't tell me that in times of cold weather and high demand that the line transmission charge is 2 or 3 times more than the wholesale rate?

voy1d

178 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 35

#2108370 15-Oct-2018 17:57

SBQ:

As for the Infeasible Pricing - it's a poor excuse for Flick to say they can't determine a price for their customers. voy1d explained, Flick doesn't give a clear answer on what pricing schedule they use (PRS, NRS and RTP) and as I pointed out, their Flick App doesn't give a true calculation of their price when we look at the spot wholesale rate. You can't have a spot rate that is $1/kW/hr and end up having the app show $5 or $10/kw/hr. You can't tell me that in times of cold weather and high demand that the line transmission charge is 2 or 3 times more than the wholesale rate?

Actually, Infeasible prices are an entirely different kettle of fish. The objective function solving the market is a Linear Program and infeasible prices are set as boundaries (otherwise you'd have no solve at all).

Flick can't tell you what the spot price will be until final prices are issued.

miked

207 posts

Master Geek
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#2109045 16-Oct-2018 18:01

For the first time in a long time, I'm tempted to jump ship. I just had Contact Energy on the door offering me a deal.

33.3c/day (low uncontrolled)

30.10c/KWh

0.13 levy

But then 26% discount (24% and then 1% for direct debit & 1% for email billing).

All excluding GST.

That brings them to 24.6c per day and 22.4c per KWh.

Compared to Flick at 30c per day and 15.53 (plus the spot price) per KWh.

For our usage, these would be comparable over the full year if the spot price averaged 6.5c per KWh

However, these prices are locked in until end of Nov 2020 (eg 25 months), but no contract, can leave when you like. Probably not quite tempting enough on its own, but they have $150 credit for joining, and if you leave before Nov 2020, then you just pay the $150 back. If I factor the $150 credit as a $75 discount per year, that is break even at about 5.5c per spot unit on average with Flick. Which is pretty reasonable I suspect.

I've asked Flick for the Fixie price to compare, but guessing it won't beat Contact, but we'll see.

I really like Flick and have always resisted deals I was offered up until now, but these prices plus certainty for 2 years would allow the market and Flick to mature some more (not been getting the notifications on the app, like others!). Also, I really haven't been making very big savings on Flick since Wellington Electricity dropped the overnight and weekend pricing we used to get. That was where all my savings came from with Flick in the early years.

Anything I'm missing? Do others think this sounds like a good deal?

jpwise

jpwise
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#2109048 16-Oct-2018 18:27

I'm similarly having to seriously review the feasibility of staying with flick as well. I compiled all of my consumption and averaged kw/h rates for the past 2 years over the weekend, and for the past 2 years, the average (of averages) still comes to 23.089c per kw/h.

Taking the past 12 months of data, its nudges slightly higher at 23.701. I could move to fixie, but the current offering is 23.763 which hardly seems worth it.

This is based on an average power consumption of 486kw/h a month for the Oct-16 -> Oct-17 period, and an average of 545kw/h for the Oct-17 -> Oct-18 period (after the kitchen was put back together - renovations). It also includes an amount of peak load shifting, and automatic radio plugs keeping dehumidifiers etc off when prices are over the 9 day average price.

Right now the 9 day average is $43.45 c/kwhr, and 57.66 c/kwhr for the past 24 hours.. Hutt Valley, Wellington.

If Contacts doing a deal I might give them a ring and see what they'll offer over the phone, and perhaps the same for some of the other competitors.

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nickb800

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#2109896 17-Oct-2018 15:55

I'm not normally prone to jumping ship when spot prices jump, however if my interpretation is correct, the ASX futures market is suggesting prices circa $150/MWh i.e. 15c/KWh until March.

https://www.asx.com.au/asx/markets/futuresPriceList.do?code=ED&type=FUTURE

Fair interpretation?

wellygary

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#2109903 17-Oct-2018 16:11

nickb800:

I'm not normally prone to jumping ship when spot prices jump, however if my interpretation is correct, the ASX futures market is suggesting prices circa $150/MWh i.e. 15c/KWh until March.

https://www.asx.com.au/asx/markets/futuresPriceList.do?code=ED&type=FUTURE

Fair interpretation?

Not really, there has been no trades on anything other than the November contract, so without some liquidity in the market there is no real ability to infer anything,

the thing to watch is this from T/power.... it should start to rise soon as spring melt and rains kick in, but if it doesn't come up prices will stay high over summer...

miked

207 posts

Master Geek
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#2109940 17-Oct-2018 16:48

miked:

For the first time in a long time, I'm tempted to jump ship. I just had Contact Energy on the door offering me a deal.

<snip>

That brings them to 24.6c per day and 22.4c per KWh.

Compared to Flick at 30c per day and 15.53 (plus the spot price) per KWh.

<snip>

I've asked Flick for the Fixie price to compare, but guessing it won't beat Contact, but we'll see.

<snip>

Anything I'm missing? Do others think this sounds like a good deal?

Flick's price for Fixie is in. 30c per day and 23.5c per KWh

Out of interest, Flick's 10 year average price for me is 22.75c per KWh. So even ignoring the $150, this is beating both the long term average price and the Fixie price.

I just need to check the terms and conditions and make sure everything is as it seems...

nickb800

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#2110011 17-Oct-2018 19:51

wellygary:
nickb800:

I'm not normally prone to jumping ship when spot prices jump, however if my interpretation is correct, the ASX futures market is suggesting prices circa $150/MWh i.e. 15c/KWh until March.

https://www.asx.com.au/asx/markets/futuresPriceList.do?code=ED&type=FUTURE

Fair interpretation?

Not really, there has been no trades on anything other than the November contract, so without some liquidity in the market there is no real ability to infer anything,

the thing to watch is this from T/power.... it should start to rise soon as spring melt and rains kick in, but if it doesn't come up prices will stay high over summer...

Gotcha. So there's no liquid futures market we can easily monitor?

voy1d

178 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 35

#2110017 17-Oct-2018 19:56

nickb800:
wellygary:

nickb800:

I'm not normally prone to jumping ship when spot prices jump, however if my interpretation is correct, the ASX futures market is suggesting prices circa $150/MWh i.e. 15c/KWh until March.

https://www.asx.com.au/asx/markets/futuresPriceList.do?code=ED&type=FUTURE

Fair interpretation?

Not really, there has been no trades on anything other than the November contract, so without some liquidity in the market there is no real ability to infer anything,

the thing to watch is this from T/power.... it should start to rise soon as spring melt and rains kick in, but if it doesn't come up prices will stay high over summer...

Gotcha. So there's no liquid futures market we can easily monitor?

In regards to which timescale? The ASX is the official futures market for the NZEM and the four major gentailers are required to maintain market making positions. If you are just wanting an idea of what prices could be in the next week you can use the WDS on the electricityinfo website.

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