Currently renting, owner selling house - open home "reasonable access" question

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#1200281 19-Dec-2014 06:18

$20 a week is not nearly enough rental discount for this.

We had some problems with this as the real estate agent called up the land lord, who was a good friend and told them they would be around in about 2 hours, we said no way as this was at 10am on a week day so we didn't have a chance to give the place a good tidy before hand.

The real estate agent went ahead anyway so they were sacked.

I agree with above $20 per hour per person for the inconvenience, or get a mankini and lounge around the yard when they come and visit!

Also get out and get another place, or tell the land lord you need a better situation or you'll move out.

andrewNZ

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#1200294 19-Dec-2014 07:23

I'd ask for a 25% discount not $20.
In return I'd let them bring anyone to see the outside anytime with an hours notice. I'd let then bring serious viewers at fixed times that suited me (I'd probably say while I'm at work Monday to Thursday) and other times by negotiation and one nights notice.

No discount ($20 doesn't count as a discount). I'd let them have 2 fixed 1 hour windows a week (at rubbish times for them) and one hour on one weekend day a month. Or tell them that its by negotiation only, 48 hours notice, and don't let them have more than 2 a week.

scuwp

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#1200302 19-Dec-2014 07:51

andrewNZ: I'd ask for a 25% discount not $20.
In return I'd let them bring anyone to see the outside anytime with an hours notice. I'd let then bring serious viewers at fixed times that suited me (I'd probably say while I'm at work Monday to Thursday) and other times by negotiation and one nights notice.

No discount ($20 doesn't count as a discount). I'd let them have 2 fixed 1 hour windows a week (at rubbish times for them) and one hour on one weekend day a month. Or tell them that its by negotiation only, 48 hours notice, and don't let them have more than 2 a week.

I agree a more substantive discount is in order, and reasonable notice of any visits outside open home times. I would have thought the normal tenancy rules of 24 hours notice would apply, less only by mutual agreement.

If you have to go so far as to be deliberately belligerent in demands for 'rubbish times' for the owner and other such aggravating tactics subverting the chances of a sale (and who knows the new owners might just be new landlords), then I would say it is time to move on.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

keewee01

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#1210971 9-Jan-2015 09:40

Any update on how you got on with this?

dacraka

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#1211005 9-Jan-2015 11:05

Yea, the update is that the auction failed to have any bidders place any bids at all on the property!
The second to last viewing was 24 hours notice, the last viewing was last night with 22 hours notice (both on two consecutive days this week!).

Here is a quote from one of her recent emails:

Real Estate Agent:

Here's a point for you to ponder on, the property will probably sell faster if you made the viewing and access easier by cooperating - in fact, if an investor were to buy it they would definitely want to buy with tenants in it - and in most cases they would ask me for a good a word about the current tenants - I will not be short of words to talk about you.

As for further rent reduction, I suggest this is something that you would have to take up with the owner, my client. You mentioned about your flat mates who might move out should there be another viewing or Open Home - did you know that you are not supposed to sublet by tenancy agreement and law?

I would like to have alternate weekend of Open Homes (preferably on Sunday only) from noon time for half an hour and on the other two weekends that I will not have Open Homes, I would like to have one evening of viewing on a week day (preferably after office hours maybe from 5:30pm onwards maybe for 10 minutes of viewing).For the weekday viewings if no buyer had made any appointments, I will notify you a day earlier so that you can make your own plans for that evening.

keewee01

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#1211020 9-Jan-2015 11:38

dacraka: Yea, the update is that the auction failed to have any bidders place any bids at all on the property!
The second to last viewing was 24 hours notice, the last viewing was last night with 22 hours notice (both on two consecutive days this week!).

Here is a quote from one of her recent emails:

Real Estate Agent: Here's a point for you to ponder on, the property will probably sell faster if you made the viewing and access easier by cooperating - in fact, if an investor were to buy it they would definitely want to buy with tenants in it - and in most cases they would ask me for a good a word about the current tenants - I will not be short of words to talk about you. As for further rent reduction, I suggest this is something that you would have to take up with the owner, my client. You mentioned about your flat mates who might move out should there be another viewing or Open Home - did you know that you are not supposed to sublet by tenancy agreement and law? I would like to have alternate weekend of Open Homes (preferably on Sunday only) from noon time for half an hour and on the other two weekends that I will not have Open Homes, I would like to have one evening of viewing on a week day (preferably after office hours maybe from 5:30pm onwards maybe for 10 minutes of viewing).For the weekday viewings if no buyer had made any appointments, I will notify you a day earlier so that you can make your own plans for that evening.

Good luck!!

As your tenancy agreement is with the owner (by the looks of what the real estate agent has said) you will need to approach them regarding rent reduction, and you could discuss the viewing times/days with them also as to get the real estate agent to follow any sort of pattern that you wanted then the instruction to them would have to come from the owner.

Sounds like you might be better off looking for another place. And watch yourself over the subletting thing - you don't want to fall fowl of the landlord/owner over that. Although I know many landlords are OK with that sort of thing (informal agreement that the tenant has "subletters") you leave yourself open.

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slingynz

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#1211022 9-Jan-2015 11:41

keewee01:
Good luck!!

As your tenancy agreement is with the owner (by the looks of what the real estate agent has said) you will need to approach them regarding rent reduction, and you could discuss the viewing times/days with them also as to get the real estate agent to follow any sort of pattern that you wanted then the instruction to them would have to come from the owner.

Sounds like you might be better off looking for another place. And watch yourself over the subletting thing - you don't want to fall fowl of the landlord/owner over that. Although I know many landlords are OK with that sort of thing (informal agreement that the tenant has "subletters") you leave yourself open.

IANAL but I'm pretty sure the tenancy tribunal thinks subletting is when the original tenant (on rental agreement) has vacated the property, and has new tenants move in.

dacraka

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#1211024 9-Jan-2015 11:45

keewee01:
Good luck!!

As your tenancy agreement is with the owner (by the looks of what the real estate agent has said) you will need to approach them regarding rent reduction, and you could discuss the viewing times/days with them also as to get the real estate agent to follow any sort of pattern that you wanted then the instruction to them would have to come from the owner.

Sounds like you might be better off looking for another place. And watch yourself over the subletting thing - you don't want to fall fowl of the landlord/owner over that. Although I know many landlords are OK with that sort of thing (informal agreement that the tenant has "subletters") you leave yourself open.

Cheers, I'll need it!

The original landlord/property manager I signed with (before he resigned a couple months ago) said that I could have flatmates so that's why I have flatmates. I wonder id the real estate agent is just assuming that I can't have flatmates as I doubt that she has read my original agreement with my original landlord.

dacraka

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#1211026 9-Jan-2015 11:47

slingynz:
IANAL but I'm pretty sure the tenancy tribunal thinks subletting is when the original tenant (on rental agreement) has vacated the property, and has new tenants move in.

I wonder what subletting actually means then? Does anyone know how this applies to me? As I currently live in the property.

keewee01

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#1211045 9-Jan-2015 12:06

dacraka:
slingynz:
IANAL but I'm pretty sure the tenancy tribunal thinks subletting is when the original tenant (on rental agreement) has vacated the property, and has new tenants move in.

I wonder what subletting actually means then? Does anyone know how this applies to me? As I currently live in the property.

I found a comment on this page that "Subletting under the Residential Tenancies Act generally involves the tenant parting with possession of the premises by renting the premises to a new tenant (in which case the tenant becomes a sub-landlord and the new tenant is a sub-tenant). If the tenant is still residing in the premises then it may not be considered to be sublet. "

So it would seem that you are not subletting and that the real estage agent is full of it! The only thing would be the total number of allowable tennants as listed in your agreement with the landlord.

I found the following on http://www.dbh.govt.nz/residential-tenancies-act but it isn't relivant as you are still living there

8. Subletting and assignment

If not expressly prohibited by the landlord, the tenant may sublet or assign the tenancy but only with the landlord’s prior written consent. Consent may not be unreasonably withheld unless subletting is totally prohibited by this agreement.

A tenant cannot assign a boarding house tenancy.

dickytim

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#1211052 9-Jan-2015 12:18

dacraka: Yea, the update is that the auction failed to have any bidders place any bids at all on the property!
The second to last viewing was 24 hours notice, the last viewing was last night with 22 hours notice (both on two consecutive days this week!).

Here is a quote from one of her recent emails:

Real Estate Agent: Here's a point for you to ponder on, the property will probably sell faster if you made the viewing and access easier by cooperating - in fact, if an investor were to buy it they would definitely want to buy with tenants in it - and in most cases they would ask me for a good a word about the current tenants - I will not be short of words to talk about you. As for further rent reduction, I suggest this is something that you would have to take up with the owner, my client. You mentioned about your flat mates who might move out should there be another viewing or Open Home - did you know that you are not supposed to sublet by tenancy agreement and law? I would like to have alternate weekend of Open Homes (preferably on Sunday only) from noon time for half an hour and on the other two weekends that I will not have Open Homes, I would like to have one evening of viewing on a week day (preferably after office hours maybe from 5:30pm onwards maybe for 10 minutes of viewing).For the weekday viewings if no buyer had made any appointments, I will notify you a day earlier so that you can make your own plans for that evening.

His first comment is actually crap, clearly in this market if it hasn't sold he is not doing a very good job, or the property is over priced significantly.

If the real estate agent gave a bad reference to a perspective buyer about the tenant he'd be cutting his nose off to spite his face. Is he threatening you with a bad reference?

you might want to pass those comments on to the owner as in the first part of the e-mails he seems to not really be acting in the best interest of his client.

As others have said, it is looking like you should be looking elsewhere as a matter of urgency, personally I would not stand for this and I'd actually be making sure they are sticking to the letter of the law with regards to access.

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dacraka

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#1211057 9-Jan-2015 12:27

dickytim:
dacraka: Yea, the update is that the auction failed to have any bidders place any bids at all on the property!
The second to last viewing was 24 hours notice, the last viewing was last night with 22 hours notice (both on two consecutive days this week!).

Here is a quote from one of her recent emails:

Real Estate Agent: Here's a point for you to ponder on, the property will probably sell faster if you made the viewing and access easier by cooperating - in fact, if an investor were to buy it they would definitely want to buy with tenants in it - and in most cases they would ask me for a good a word about the current tenants - I will not be short of words to talk about you. As for further rent reduction, I suggest this is something that you would have to take up with the owner, my client. You mentioned about your flat mates who might move out should there be another viewing or Open Home - did you know that you are not supposed to sublet by tenancy agreement and law? I would like to have alternate weekend of Open Homes (preferably on Sunday only) from noon time for half an hour and on the other two weekends that I will not have Open Homes, I would like to have one evening of viewing on a week day (preferably after office hours maybe from 5:30pm onwards maybe for 10 minutes of viewing).For the weekday viewings if no buyer had made any appointments, I will notify you a day earlier so that you can make your own plans for that evening.

His first comment is actually crap, clearly in this market if it hasn't sold he is not doing a very good job, or the property is over priced significantly.

If the real estate agent gave a bad reference to a perspective buyer about the tenant he'd be cutting his nose off to spite his face. Is he threatening you with a bad reference?

you might want to pass those comments on to the owner as in the first part of the e-mails he seems to not really be acting in the best interest of his client.

As others have said, it is looking like you should be looking elsewhere as a matter of urgency, personally I would not stand for this and I'd actually be making sure they are sticking to the letter of the law with regards to access.

It certainly does look like the real estate agent (female) is threatening me with a bad reference doesn't it! Yea the building has nearly identical buildings next to it that has leaking and structural cracking problems which is the reason why it's not selling at the moment.

The owner was copied in on all the emails so the owner knows about the above email from the real estate agent. I'm not sure is the owner had a private conversation with the real estate agent afterwards though to tell them off (as I would have if I was the owner!)

Wade

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#1211106 9-Jan-2015 13:21

still comes around to the argument that the agent is not that good at her job mixed in with a bit of an unrealistic vendor, leaky or not it will sell at the right price. If there is a need for multiple viewings a week then there appears to be plenty of interest still. If agent can't sell it for what the vendor wants then she needs to work on getting vendor to reassess their expectations which i would argue is part of her job

Its not going to end well, find a new place and move out, its the most viable solution for you, too much unnecessary stress for this time of year!!

networkn

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#1211107 9-Jan-2015 13:21

andrewNZ: I'd ask for a 25% discount not $20.
In return I'd let them bring anyone to see the outside anytime with an hours notice. I'd let then bring serious viewers at fixed times that suited me (I'd probably say while I'm at work Monday to Thursday) and other times by negotiation and one nights notice.

No discount ($20 doesn't count as a discount). I'd let them have 2 fixed 1 hour windows a week (at rubbish times for them) and one hour on one weekend day a month. Or tell them that its by negotiation only, 48 hours notice, and don't let them have more than 2 a week.

Posts like this make me grateful I don't own rental property.

timmmay

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#1211114 9-Jan-2015 13:40

In my experience many real estate agents are arrogant egotistical asshats. It's a largely unskilled job which relies on being nice to people - they seem to be ok at being nice to people who they can make money off but incredibly rude to anyone else.

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