Currently renting, owner selling house - open home "reasonable access" question

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dacraka

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# 159968 18-Dec-2014 17:23

Hey guys, I am currently renting a three bedroom apartment in St Lukes, Auckland and the owner wants to sell the place.

There currently have been 1-2 open homes every week and a few random private viewings placed in there as well over the last two or so months.
The auction for property took place last night with no bidders bidding at all so the property is going to continue to be on the market for the foreseeable future.

The law states that I must allow the real estate agent "reasonable" access to the property to show potential buyers the place.
My question is how often so you guys think is "reasonable access"? Personally I am getting fed up with all these viewings especially while I am paying good money (rent) every week for peace and quiet.
The owner has offered $20 per week discount, however I am now thinking that is not that much for the inconvenience that I am having to currently put up with.
My flatmate said that if there is one more viewing, he is going to move out - we are all getting stressed out.
The property could potentially be on the market for many more months (also viewings over Christmas won't be the best either) - you can see what I am getting at, right guys?

Question: How often do you think reasonable access is?

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# 1200087 18-Dec-2014 17:33

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I think 1 hour per week is reasonable

kingjj

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# 1200090 18-Dec-2014 17:40

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I would personally class reasonable as no more than two access periods per week, pre arranged and with my consent/attendance only. Preferably on the same day (open home, than second viewing for instance).

When I was a student and they sold our flat we were first advised when a real estate agent arrived at the door to take photos. Being a student flat you can imagine the state of the place... we came to an agreement with the LL's that they could show to flat with 2 conditions: at least 48 hours notice and no more than twice a week. We didn't get this on paper but they were good at keeping to it. In exchange the LL's glanced over a few indiscretions of ours in terms of 'maintenance' (the house was old and being sold as a rebuild anyway).

The Tenancy Act is full of the term 'unreasonably' ('Tenants cannot unreasonably refuse a request by the landlord or their agent to access the property' etc) when it comes to matters such as this, unfortunately its open to interpretation!

You do have the right to refuse photos of your personal effects being taken however (could be a good way to force their hand a bit if they have done so).

The DBH has more info here including suggestions on how to structure an access agreement with your LL's.

Best of luck mate! It's not a nice feeling having your personal space invaded and judged regularly by the great unwashed.

timmmay

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# 1200091 18-Dec-2014 17:44

Two one hour windows a week is what I'd consider reasonable - you could push for one, they could push for three, but two is probably fair. 48 hours notice.

Batman

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# 1200095 18-Dec-2014 17:56

2 x 1 hr - 1 set time, one flexible on demand. no more.
plus the $20 per person
and start looking for a new place to stay and just move out when you find one.

Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.

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# 1200098 18-Dec-2014 17:59

and definitely NO VIEWING between Christmas eve and day after new year's day.
when they counter say 1 viewing set time between the 27th and the 29th.

(let me tell you straight off the agent will be very very very happy with you too - they also have a life, and know the chances of a sale over this period is low unless the owners are desperate to accept a low ball offer)

Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.

Wade

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# 1200105 18-Dec-2014 18:21

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If its been on the market that long there is either something wrong or the owner wants too much

Are you expected to vacate during open homes and viewing? Are you expected to keep the house show tidier than 'normal living'?

If you are being reasonably disadvantaged then a substantial rent reduction would be the approach i would take.. personally i would start shopping around for a new place as this is where you will inevitably end up anyway, do it on your term not the homeowners

mattwnz

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# 1200112 18-Dec-2014 18:46

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That is one of the problem with renting. I would get advice from the CAB as to what is considered reasonable. They perhaps should only be showing really serious buyers through it, rather than just anyone who wants to see it. Also what happens if any of your stuff goes missing while they are showing people around or during open homes, which does happen, as agents can't be in every room. You may want o check with your insurer that you are covered in case something goes missing, because I have heard that during a normal open home, you aren't covered if something goes missing, because they are invited in.

Geektastic

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# 1200115 18-Dec-2014 18:58

dacraka: Hey guys, I am currently renting a three bedroom apartment in St Lukes, Auckland and the owner wants to sell the place.

There currently have been 1-2 open homes every week and a few random private viewings placed in there as well over the last two or so months.
The auction for property took place last night with no bidders bidding at all so the property is going to continue to be on the market for the foreseeable future.

The law states that I must allow the real estate agent "reasonable" access to the property to show potential buyers the place.
My question is how often so you guys think is "reasonable access"? Personally I am getting fed up with all these viewings especially while I am paying good money (rent) every week for peace and quiet.
The owner has offered $20 per week discount, however I am now thinking that is not that much for the inconvenience that I am having to currently put up with.
My flatmate said that if there is one more viewing, he is going to move out - we are all getting stressed out.
The property could potentially be on the market for many more months (also viewings over Christmas won't be the best either) - you can see what I am getting at, right guys?

Question: How often do you think reasonable access is?

Since you are asking for my personal view, I would say 1 open home per fortnight only.

Jase2985

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# 1200143 18-Dec-2014 20:19

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^^^^ reasonable for you but not reasonable for someone trying to sell a house, if it were you house that you had rented out and you were trying to sell would you consider that reasonable from the tenant? i doubt it

One open home on a weekend up to 1h and 2 no more than 1h combined visits on a weeknight, one at a set pre-arranged time the other flexible

floydie

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# 1200160 18-Dec-2014 20:33

one 1 hour period in the weekend and NONE in the week. its where you live. you shouldnt have to keep the place in showroon condition all the time.

being asked to bugger off 2 nights a weeks and 2 hours in the weekend is NOT reasonable..... Who is gonna pay for you rdinner while you are forced out tof you r house during the weeknights???

rent discount should be $20 per person per hour of inconvieience

alasta

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# 1200171 18-Dec-2014 20:59

Are you on a fixed term or periodic tenancy?

lucky015

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# 1200179 18-Dec-2014 21:19

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The definition of reasonable is a bit iffy but the simple answer is that there is a high chance you are going to be moving out when they sell, You are being inconvenienced due to what they are doing however they are entitled to do it.

You do however have the choice to give notice and move, Which will leave them with an empty property they are trying to sell and likely will not be able to sell for upto 3 months from now, No one will be interested in moving in without a SIGNIFICANTLY discounted rate therefore it is in their interest to give you a much better discount and take a lot more care with what they are doing.

dacraka

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# 1200237 18-Dec-2014 22:29

Just want to say thanks to everyone that has helped with suggestions to what they think a "reasonable" amount of open homes/viewings is. Keep your comments about my situation coming : )

Wade: If its been on the market that long there is either something wrong or the owner wants too much

Are you expected to vacate during open homes and viewing? Are you expected to keep the house show tidier than 'normal living'?

If you are being reasonably disadvantaged then a substantial rent reduction would be the approach i would take.. personally i would start shopping around for a new place as this is where you will inevitably end up anyway, do it on your term not the homeowners

Yes, the building is potentially leaky as one of the next door buildings (similar) has been classed as leaky and has structural cracking.
The law states "Requesting to be present when open homes are taking place." so I have the choice of being present or not - they can't have me bugger off while they are doing a viewing/open home.
The place is always reasonably clean as I like to keep a clean place.

Jase2985: ^^^^ reasonable for you but not reasonable for someone trying to sell a house, if it were you house that you had rented out and you were trying to sell would you consider that reasonable from the tenant? i doubt it

One open home on a weekend up to 1h and 2 no more than 1h combined visits on a weeknight, one at a set pre-arranged time the other flexible

If I were the owner, I would give my tenant a large discount for the inconvenience as I know they are paying that amount of rent for uninterrupted living.

alasta: Are you on a fixed term or periodic tenancy?

My fixed term contract ended one year ago.

mattwnz: That is one of the problem with renting. I would get advice from the CAB as to what is considered reasonable. They perhaps should only be showing really serious buyers through it, rather than just anyone who wants to see it. Also what happens if any of your stuff goes missing while they are showing people around or during open homes, which does happen, as agents can't be in every room. You may want o check with your insurer that you are covered in case something goes missing, because I have heard that during a normal open home, you aren't covered if something goes missing, because they are invited in.

I called the CAB today, basically the nice elderly lady said that she could not tell me what she thought "reasonable" access translated to.

Geektastic

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# 1200270 19-Dec-2014 00:31

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Jase2985: ^^^^ reasonable for you but not reasonable for someone trying to sell a house, if it were you house that you had rented out and you were trying to sell would you consider that reasonable from the tenant? i doubt it

One open home on a weekend up to 1h and 2 no more than 1h combined visits on a weeknight, one at a set pre-arranged time the other flexible

I'd terminate the tenancy before I tried to sell it. I regard that as fairer all round. (and I spent 17 years managing tens of millions of dollars worth of property by way of qualification!)

Geektastic

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# 1200271 19-Dec-2014 00:33

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dacraka: Just want to say thanks to everyone that has helped with suggestions to what they think a "reasonable" amount of open homes/viewings is. Keep your comments about my situation coming : )

Wade: If its been on the market that long there is either something wrong or the owner wants too much

Are you expected to vacate during open homes and viewing? Are you expected to keep the house show tidier than 'normal living'?

If you are being reasonably disadvantaged then a substantial rent reduction would be the approach i would take.. personally i would start shopping around for a new place as this is where you will inevitably end up anyway, do it on your term not the homeowners

Yes, the building is potentially leaky as one of the next door buildings (similar) has been classed as leaky and has structural cracking.
The law states "Requesting to be present when open homes are taking place." so I have the choice of being present or not - they can't have me bugger off while they are doing a viewing/open home.
The place is always reasonably clean as I like to keep a clean place.

Jase2985: ^^^^ reasonable for you but not reasonable for someone trying to sell a house, if it were you house that you had rented out and you were trying to sell would you consider that reasonable from the tenant? i doubt it

One open home on a weekend up to 1h and 2 no more than 1h combined visits on a weeknight, one at a set pre-arranged time the other flexible

If I were the owner, I would give my tenant a large discount for the inconvenience as I know they are paying that amount of rent for uninterrupted living.

alasta: Are you on a fixed term or periodic tenancy?

My fixed term contract ended one year ago.

mattwnz: That is one of the problem with renting. I would get advice from the CAB as to what is considered reasonable. They perhaps should only be showing really serious buyers through it, rather than just anyone who wants to see it. Also what happens if any of your stuff goes missing while they are showing people around or during open homes, which does happen, as agents can't be in every room. You may want o check with your insurer that you are covered in case something goes missing, because I have heard that during a normal open home, you aren't covered if something goes missing, because they are invited in.

I called the CAB today, basically the nice elderly lady said that she could not tell me what she thought "reasonable" access translated to.

Why don't you all just give notice and leave the landlord to get on with it?!

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