Hydrogen fuel cell

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raytaylor

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#147222 12-Jun-2014 20:04

Does anyone know of a product that one can buy off the shelf that converts hydrogen into power.
Am looking for something around 50 watts output.

I have seen on amazon, the small cellphone chargers and bike lamps that run on hydrogen.

When I google for hydrogen generators or fuel cells, it only seems to return results in converting water into hydrogen, where I am looking for the reverse - converting hydrogen into power.

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#1064487 12-Jun-2014 21:51

You are looking for 'hydrogen fuel cell'. Horizon are the leader in off the shelf.

http://www.horizonfuelcell.com/#!portable-fuel-cells/c1rvs

gzt

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#1064500 12-Jun-2014 22:08

BOC use Horizon as OEM for the Hymera range. BOC in NZ also BOC medical. I'd be surprised if they carry stock but at least it's a local supplier.

eracode

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#1064623 13-Jun-2014 02:43

Sounds interesting - can you tell us more about what you are doing?

Sometimes I just sit and think. Other times I just sit.

raytaylor

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#1064626 13-Jun-2014 04:04

eracode: Sounds interesting - can you tell us more about what you are doing?

We have a 60 watt load at a remote site and am trying to work out how to power it.
15x deep cycle batteries is a huge cost to replace every 3 years at $6k

Wind is not acceptable.

Solar requires a huge battery battery bank and 900 watts of solar array.

So I thought hydrogen - I was reading about fuel cells around 5 years ago and couldnt find the particular product I was looking for.
But the hydromax 150 looks like it would be perfect.

However looking at the cost of setting up a 300 litre storage system to provide a month or two worth of power may be still uneconomic. Even though we visit the sites every 2 months anyway.

I thought, if we went down the hydrogen + solar path and used the excess solar energy to make hydrogen onsite using a hydrogen generator and a large water tank, and then stored the hydrogen for reconversion to power after a couple of days of rain, but it looks like the tank pressures required would be too complicated

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knoydart

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#1064627 13-Jun-2014 05:06

There was a methane fuel cell manufacturer at rfuanz last month showing off their product which is used by the NZTA to power a radio site near Milford sound. Maybe a quick google on that project might help and they have them in use in NZ conditions now

kenkeniff

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#1064665 13-Jun-2014 08:44

Slightly off topic; but I've always wondered about storing energy as gravitational-potential.

i.e. A rig with a sufficiently heavy weight slowly raised mechanically on a cable, either [directly by wind turbine or via solar-powered DC motor] and appropriate gear ratios.

Energy would be retrieved from the system by lowering the weight causing a DC motor (generator) to turn, all controlled by a computer of course.

Advantages;

Kinetic energy can be stored directly by attaching directly to gear system (i.e. wind/hydro turbines).
Solar / electrical energy can stored via DC motor.
No minimum power output requirement of turbine or motor as gear ratio can be adjusted accordingly on-the-fly to enable continuous storage of energy.
Weight system could be buried underground or surface-mounted and consist of any material (old engine block or 1000L water cylinder).

Haven't crunched the physics on it though to see what weight's / cable length's would be required to store a decent amount of power.

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knoydart

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#1064670 13-Jun-2014 08:58

This is done on a small scale in Africa, to drive leds that minimise the risk of naked flames.

Anyway maybe the bayliss spring could be a starter?

kenkeniff

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#1064675 13-Jun-2014 09:15

andrewNZ

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#1064677 13-Jun-2014 09:18

This stuff probably needs it's own thread folks

wellygary

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#1064680 13-Jun-2014 09:21

Try Methanol, its a more mature tech,

Apparently NIWA are using it to power some of their remote date collectors

From:

http://www.niwa.co.nz/publications/isu/instrument-systems-update-17-may-2011/new-sodar-makes-the-wind-visible

"The fuel cell The fuel cell converts chemical energy stored in the methanol fuel into electrical energy. It can supply up to 65 Watts of power continuously. A 28-litre cartridge of methanol will power the SODAR 24 hours a day for around three weeks. To reduce the amount of methanol needed and to extend the time between site visits the power supply is supplemented with solar panels."

Sounds almost exactly what you are wanting, might pay to give someone a call and see where they got it and how much it cost...

Beccara

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#1064682 13-Jun-2014 09:25

Hydrogen is a slippery thing and even thinking about generating it would require far more energy input than you would get out.

I would more look at methanol, less leaky and less explody but still burny lol. The Efoy line uses about 1L of methanol per kwh, 50w is about 1.2kwh a day so you'd need 100l for a 3 month supply but I'd put up a small solar array, small battery bank and an Efoy unit and you'd get 6 months between fueling

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raytaylor

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#1064731 13-Jun-2014 10:31

Okay so looking now at methanol.
Being a liquid it would be much easier for us to transport

Does anyone know where to buy methanol in large quantities, and if the fuel cells/generators are silent?

BOC doesnt list methanol on their website

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andrewNZ

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#1064753 13-Jun-2014 10:55

Check if Ethanol will do the same thing, it's a very similar substance and may be easier to get in bulk. Most RTD's are just a basic mix spiked with ethanol, and I've seen it in drums.

Otherwise, Race cars often run on Methanol, and I believe car clubs often get it by the drum.

ubergeeknz

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#1064763 13-Jun-2014 11:13

kenkeniff:

There are a few problems with this concept...

1. When there is no solar or wind power available to lift the weight, and no load applied by the generator, the weight will be free to drop, wasting the stored energy.
2. The rotational speed of the generator will be wildly inconsistent depending on the load.
3. You need a very strong motor to lift the weight, and a fairly deep hole. For eg. to store ~ 1 kWh of energy you need about 40 tonnes and a 10 metre deep hole.

wellygary

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#1064764 13-Jun-2014 11:14

raytaylor: Okay so looking now at methanol.
Being a liquid it would be much easier for us to transport

Does anyone know where to buy methanol in large quantities, and if the fuel cells/generators are silent?

BOC doesnt list methanol on their website

try this list,

http://www.nzchemicalsuppliers.co.nz/list/search?search=methanol

Most suppliers will sell it to you in a 200 lites drum (40/44 Gallon)

http://www.tmkpackers.co.nz/index.php/site/product/methanol

Heck its probably even local, Methanex in Taranaki produce over 2 million tonnes of the stuff a year

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