2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2655640 13-Feb-2021 13:22

Jas777:

Another lockdown in Victoria/Melbourne.

Why don't they find some small town, that has lost all its industry and move the remaining residents out. Then surround it with electric fencing and move arrivals to there instead of in Melbourne.

Could do the same here in an old logging town.

For the last 3 outbreaks in melbourne the source of infection have been the MIQ workers NOT the returnees.....

Even FIFO workers in OZ get to go back to civilisation every few weeks, to eliminate that risk totally you would have to treat the staff exactly the same as the returnees, but places like NSW have over 3000 working in MIQ , so those are the numbers you need to additionally “detain” .... plus get them to leave their families for months on end.....

sbiddle

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#2655650 13-Feb-2021 13:58

Victoria doesn't want any more quarantine hotels and doesn't want to be part of the program - and I suspect other Australian states are only going to follow. The real question is what this means for getting into Australia because the Federal Govt doesn't want to touch the program either.

You can really only put the lack of spread in NZ with our CT cases down to incredibly good luck.

Jas777

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#2655665 13-Feb-2021 14:42

vexxxboy:

Jas777:

Another lockdown in Victoria/Melbourne.

Why don't they find some small town, that has lost all its industry and move the remaining residents out. Then surround it with electric fencing and move arrivals to there instead of in Melbourne.

Could do the same here in an old logging town.

so you want to take people who have done nothing wrong and may have a virus and treat them like criminals just to make you feel safe. im pretty sure that the first thing that went in the pandemic was compassion.

Ok, don't make the fences electric. Then it will just be like what have now but not just in the big city.

I am sure being able to live in a normal type house and have a garden would be better than a 30sq metre room.

Could also keep each house isolated from each also.

mattwnz

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#2655667 13-Feb-2021 14:58

vexxxboy:

Jas777:

Another lockdown in Victoria/Melbourne.

Why don't they find some small town, that has lost all its industry and move the remaining residents out. Then surround it with electric fencing and move arrivals to there instead of in Melbourne.

Could do the same here in an old logging town.

so you want to take people who have done nothing wrong and may have a virus and treat them like criminals just to make you feel safe. im pretty sure that the first thing that went in the pandemic was compassion.

I think their point was more that these quarantine areas should be in remote isolated areas. So if there is an outbreak, it is only likely going to affect a small town, rather than a large city or state. In NZ we used to use Sommes Island as a quarantine facility, partly due to it being remote etc and people couldn't try and leave early.

kingdragonfly

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#2655670 13-Feb-2021 15:06

New york Times: On W.H.O. Trip, China Refused to Hand Over Important Data

Chinese scientists refused to share raw data that might bring the world closer to understanding the origins of the coronavirus pandemic, independent investigators for the W.H.O. said on Friday.

The investigators, who recently returned from a fact-finding trip to the Chinese city of Wuhan, said disagreements over patient records and other issues were so tense that they sometimes erupted into shouts among the typically mild-mannered scientists on both sides.

China’s continued resistance to revealing information about the early days of the coronavirus outbreak, the scientists say, makes it difficult for them to uncover important clues that could help stop future outbreaks of such dangerous diseases.

For 27 days in January and February, the team of 14 experts for the World Health Organization led the mission to trace the origins of the pandemic. Several say their Chinese counterparts were frustrated by the team’s persistent questioning and demands for data.

Chinese officials urged the W.H.O. team to embrace the government’s narrative about the source of the virus, including the unproven notion that it might have spread to China from abroad, according to several members of the team. The W.H.O. scientists responded that they would refrain from making judgments without data.

“It was my take on the entire mission that it was highly geopolitical,” Dr. Fischer said. “Everybody knows how much pressure there is on China to be open to an investigation and also how much blame there might be associated with this.”
...

Tinkerisk

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#2655673 13-Feb-2021 15:14

It has been found that übersmart people in prominent, managerial positions have unjustifiably gained advantages over the real emergency services when it comes to the Covid vaccination sequence. No pity if they get rid of their jobs because of it.

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vexxxboy

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#2655734 13-Feb-2021 17:15

mattwnz:

Another lockdown in Victoria/Melbourne.

Why don't they find some small town, that has lost all its industry and move the remaining residents out. Then surround it with electric fencing and move arrivals to there instead of in Melbourne.

Could do the same here in an old logging town.

so you want to take people who have done nothing wrong and may have a virus and treat them like criminals just to make you feel safe. im pretty sure that the first thing that went in the pandemic was compassion.

I think their point was more that these quarantine areas should be in remote isolated areas. So if there is an outbreak, it is only likely going to affect a small town, rather than a large city or state. In NZ we used to use Sommes Island as a quarantine facility, partly due to it being remote etc and people couldn't try and leave early.

so for the 3 people who have got out of the Isolation Hotels and tested positive after 14 days, out of the 100,000 who have been through and remember no one has "escaped" from the quarantine hotel, we should put every one in a camp somewhere. Seems a bit of an over reaction. also remember there is only 44 people who have covid at the moment , it should be pretty easy to keep track of them.

Common sense is not as common as you think.

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Jas777

838 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2655758 13-Feb-2021 18:17

vexxxboy:

mattwnz:

Another lockdown in Victoria/Melbourne.

Why don't they find some small town, that has lost all its industry and move the remaining residents out. Then surround it with electric fencing and move arrivals to there instead of in Melbourne.

Could do the same here in an old logging town.

so you want to take people who have done nothing wrong and may have a virus and treat them like criminals just to make you feel safe. im pretty sure that the first thing that went in the pandemic was compassion.

I think their point was more that these quarantine areas should be in remote isolated areas. So if there is an outbreak, it is only likely going to affect a small town, rather than a large city or state. In NZ we used to use Sommes Island as a quarantine facility, partly due to it being remote etc and people couldn't try and leave early.

so for the 3 people who have got out of the Isolation Hotels and tested positive after 14 days, out of the 100,000 who have been through and remember no one has "escaped" from the quarantine hotel, we should put every one in a camp somewhere. Seems a bit of an over reaction. also remember there is only 44 people who have covid at the moment , it should be pretty easy to keep track of them.

Better than 5 million people in affective house arrest 3 times and probably another time to come.

Plus taking 100 million out of the economy and knock on effect everytime a lockdown occurs

Scott3

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#2655800 13-Feb-2021 20:11

Jas777:

Another lockdown in Victoria/Melbourne.

Why don't they find some small town, that has lost all its industry and move the remaining residents out. Then surround it with electric fencing and move arrivals to there instead of in Melbourne.

Could do the same here in an old logging town.

I can't comment in Aussie, but the issues in NZ is that a viable location doesn't exist to my knowledge. And it would be seen as mighty unfair to those who's were "moved out".

In terms of scale:

Kawerau District: 2,499 (occupied on census day) households.

Tokorora: 4629 (occupied on census day) households.

Waihike island: 3,831 (occupied on census day) households. (5634 total houses).

So we would need multiple towns to replace our MIQ hotels cira 8000 rooms (without sharing households).

Security & logistic's would likely be harder to manage than in hotels. Putting an electric fence around an entire district is kinda epic, and unless it is paroled extensively is easily defeated. Frankly breakouts from our MIQ facilities aren't a big issue. Infection control is the major issue.

Unless we built an international airport for the town, people would need to be bused many hours from the international airport, and then bused back many hours at the end of their stay. Not great from a infection control point of view.

A substantial number of staff (Security, catering, medical etc.) would need to be based their, making recruitment hard, and eating into the number of available dwellings.

Re the logging towns, sadly much of the housing stock would not be of a standard appropriate to house people entering NZ. I'm sure the government wouldn't want social media full of people pointing out broken stuff, water leaks, black mold, electric safety issues, and saying this isn't what they wanted.

Also desirable to be near a hospital.

Frankly Waihiki island is the most viable location, but there is already a shortage of housing their, and there would be some serious rage when the state required all residents leave and the house's be rented to the state for say a fixed $1000/week.

Personally I don't think having the arrivals bused to say waihike (via car ferry) and issued a house would be worse than being bused to rotorua and put in a hotel. But preventing people from mingling and dealing with their needs (i.e. food delivery, covid testing, deep cleaning between stays, repairs when stuff in the house like internet breaks down) would be way more resource intensive.

mattwnz:

I think their point was more that these quarantine areas should be in remote isolated areas. So if there is an outbreak, it is only likely going to affect a small town, rather than a large city or state. In NZ we used to use Sommes Island as a quarantine facility, partly due to it being remote etc and people couldn't try and leave early.

The facility being isolated doesn't really add significant value. Biggest risk seems to be staff getting infected by guests, or guests infecting other guests. Ultimately everybody that gets discharged is going to go where they want to be anyway, which will be dominated by major cities.

That said some things like fire alarm's have been poorly managed in some of the CBD MIQ facilities.

Scott3

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#2655812 13-Feb-2021 20:27

Jas777:

vexxxboy:

so for the 3 people who have got out of the Isolation Hotels and tested positive after 14 days, out of the 100,000 who have been through and remember no one has "escaped" from the quarantine hotel, we should put every one in a camp somewhere. Seems a bit of an over reaction. also remember there is only 44 people who have covid at the moment , it should be pretty easy to keep track of them.

Better than 5 million people in affective house arrest 3 times and probably another time to come.

Plus taking 100 million out of the economy and knock on effect everytime a lockdown occurs

It's not necessarily any safer. If you imagine a forestry town being used, and a horny person nearing the end of their saty in MIQ going on tinder and finding someone that has freshly arrives and is three houses down. Would be relatively easy for them to sneak through backyards at night there and back. In a hotel where keycards arn't issued, hallways are covered by CCTV and hallways are regularly checked it would be quite hard to do this.

Only way to make MIQ massively safer is a double ring approach. This could be done in either a hotel / camp / town.

Have everybody to a facility arrive in the same 3 day window. From that point no body leaves (incl staff), until 14 days after the last case of covid-19 was removed from the facility or deemed non contagious. If somebody failed their day 12 test and was taken to another facility, everybody would need to remain for 14 more days. If somebody from that lot was infected by the first case, and anouther 14 days and so on.

All delivery by contactless means, and if say a specialist ventilation contractor was needed to fix the aircon, they could enter, but couldn't leave untill anybody else could. All border staff, bus drivers, air crew etc would go into the facility too once the 3 day window closes.

The above is workable, but would be quite harsh on the people arriving and very harsh on the staff (would need to pay them aussie FIFO kinda money to justify their lifestyle being destroyed). If we were running a single giant facility (town), offs of infections being detected increases. Also would complicate air freight as non cargo airlines shift their schedules to suit our arrival window's.

Batman

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#2655851 13-Feb-2021 22:25

sbiddle:

Victoria doesn't want any more quarantine hotels and doesn't want to be part of the program - and I suspect other Australian states are only going to follow. The real question is what this means for getting into Australia because the Federal Govt doesn't want to touch the program either.

You can really only put the lack of spread in NZ with our CT cases down to incredibly good luck.

luck is probably spelt - low (density) population, useless public transport, undesirable commercial flight destination

tdgeek

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#2655894 14-Feb-2021 08:40

Jas777:

Better than 5 million people in affective house arrest 3 times and probably another time to come.

Plus taking 100 million out of the economy and knock on effect everytime a lockdown occurs

? I recall one 5 million lockdown, that worked. Over 100,000 returnees, divide that by the "issues" Some here said Australia was the gold standard.... Then Hong Kong.... Now we have an Americas Cup event here, everyone cuddling up at the waterfront to watch the big screen, crowded bars, etc. Maybe you need to look at the last 12 months, and then look at today to get a better perspective.

Fred99

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#2655906 14-Feb-2021 09:13

NY Times is reporting that it's possible that the "UK variant" is 30-70% more lethal, as well as being more contagious.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/02/13/world/covid-19-coronavirus.
I guess if higher viral load is the result of increased ability of the variant virus to infect cells, and also higher load is also observed with more severe disease, then that's unsurprising.

Oblivian

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#2656102 14-Feb-2021 13:18

Press conf at 130 for 2 new cases in the wild

Since pullman isn't going, this could be interesting
It's about now we cross fingers for family of previous late pullman related positives..

Fred99

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#2656104 14-Feb-2021 13:19

Two new community cases in Auckland, Hipkins to hold press conference at 1:30.

(I guess the presence of the minister probably means that the community cases aren't "contained" or linked to the last outbreak - but we'll find out shortly)

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