2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2676710 18-Mar-2021 20:38

DS248:
The risk of being infected by CT in AU is no higher than it is in NZ.

People arriving from AU are more likely to be infected in our MIQ than of having been infected in AU before they left. If infected later in the quarantine period, there is a risk of the infection not being detected until after they have left MIQ.

I think a difficulty is in guaranteeing that someone arriving in Australia from (say) Europe is really covid-free when they leave Aussie's MIQ and get on a plane to NZ. Good luck with that international contact tracing!

And what are we going to do if we open the borders to Aus and they or we get a bad dose of CT? Close the borders again with thousands of people in each other's country and needing to get home?

DS248

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#2676716 18-Mar-2021 20:52

Fred99:

DS248:

A few stats for perspective.

AU (population ~25.7 m): Net local cases in the last 2 months = 24 (0.93 per million people). Source https://covidlive.com.au/report/daily-source-overseas/aus
NZ (population ~5.1 m): Net local cases in the last 2 months = 23 (4.5 per million people). Source https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/pages/covid_cases_2021-03-17.csv (Overseas travel = 'No')

So that tells me that our MIQ system probably wasn't working as well as Australia's (over the past 2 months anyway), thus increasing pressure on MIQ when we're struggling by allowing more foreigners from high risk countries in increases NZ's risk of CT from MIQ escape.

You are confusing two separate issues: a travel bubble with Australia; and whether, or how much we increase the numbers returning or coming from other countries.

A travel bubble with Australia removes ~40% of our current MIQ load. That per se(*) reduces the risk of C-19 escaping quarantine and gaining traction in the community by removing one chain of potential transmission into the community. A lower density of people in MIQ should also be a positive factor. In addition, there should also be positive impacts, especially on some sectors of our economy and personal wellbeing
(* That is, assuming no change in MIQ resource, which should be the case since the travel bubble itself will not not change the numbers of C-19 entering the country. Independently, there may be a reduction of C-19 arriving from some locations such as UK due to the impact of vaccination and other factors, as evidenced by the ten-fold reduction in daily new cases there in the last 2 months. Again, that is a separate issue)
Whether, or how much we increase the numbers returning or coming from other countries made possible by the resulting MIQ spaces is a separate calculation that will need to balance risk of introducing C-19 and other compassionate, health and economic considerations. A travel bubble itself does not require any increase in numbers coming here from other countries.

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#2676729 18-Mar-2021 21:08

frankv:And what are we going to do if we open the borders to Aus and they or we get a bad dose of CT? Close the borders again with thousands of people in each other's country and needing to get home?

That's been answered.. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/stranded-in-a-burst-transtasman-bubble-dont-expect-a-govt-handout-says-hipkins/TIYV5AWYSB3S5QZ3GEF5CBOH7I/

DS248

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#2676744 18-Mar-2021 21:36

frankv:
DS248:

The risk of being infected by CT in AU is no higher than it is in NZ.

...

I think a difficulty is in guaranteeing that someone arriving in Australia from (say) Europe is really covid-free when they leave Aussie's MIQ and get on a plane to NZ. Good luck with that international contact tracing!

...

No different to the risk of them introducing C-19 into the AU community if they stay there rather than come over here. That is a risk both countries have been managing for the last year or so. The numbers of local cases over the last couple of months give some indication of that risk; ie. AU 24 local cases (0.93/m), NZ 23 (4.5/m). In fact many if not most of those have been MIQ or boarder workers being infected and/or spreading it into the community. The numbers 'escaping' quarantine via undetected C-19 in returnees will be a lot lower.
And in anycase, that risk can almost be entirely eliminated by a simple 'no-fly the Tasman' restriction within the first 14 or 28 days of ending quarantine (already some restrictions on that here if I recall correctly)

GV27

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#2676799 19-Mar-2021 07:03

Oblivian:

That's been answered.. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/stranded-in-a-burst-transtasman-bubble-dont-expect-a-govt-handout-says-hipkins/TIYV5AWYSB3S5QZ3GEF5CBOH7I/

So we spent a year running an MIQ system for Kiwis returning from overseas - sometimes for not very long at all - and barely charged anyone for using it, but Kiwis are on their own if they travel to Australia through a specially arranged two-way bubble?

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#2676801 19-Mar-2021 07:13

freitasm: Capital Gateway, Wellington:

Does anyone know if we are going to pfizer vaccine children and pregnant women?

Handle9

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#2676802 19-Mar-2021 07:15

GV27:
Oblivian:

That's been answered.. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/stranded-in-a-burst-transtasman-bubble-dont-expect-a-govt-handout-says-hipkins/TIYV5AWYSB3S5QZ3GEF5CBOH7I/

So we spent a year running an MIQ system for Kiwis returning from overseas - sometimes for not very long at all - and barely charged anyone for using it, but Kiwis are on their own if they travel to Australia through a specially arranged two-way bubble?

The government does nothing to support anyone who travels overseas. There were a ton of people stuck at the start of the pandemic and there was very little done outside of consular support and a couple of repatriation flights from India.

Why would people travelling to Australia be any different?

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#2676803 19-Mar-2021 07:21

GV27:

Oblivian:

That's been answered.. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/stranded-in-a-burst-transtasman-bubble-dont-expect-a-govt-handout-says-hipkins/TIYV5AWYSB3S5QZ3GEF5CBOH7I/

So we spent a year running an MIQ system for Kiwis returning from overseas - sometimes for not very long at all - and barely charged anyone for using it, but Kiwis are on their own if they travel to Australia through a specially arranged two-way bubble?

Returning Kiwi's vs voluntary holiday makers

Im not sure how many holidaymakers or visiting family travellers would want to assume the risk of being locked out of an airport if there was an outbreak. Work commitments, school, $10,000 MIQ for the family. If the Govt financially supported MIQ then many many more would assume the risk as its just a 14 day risk. We would be spending an arm and a leg to support Sea World, etc

freitasm

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#2676880 19-Mar-2021 09:25

Press release:

The Government is providing a funding boost to Pacific health providers to assist them with the delivery of the Government’s COVID-19 vaccination campaign in Pacific communities.

“Our Pacific providers know and can reach our communities best. They will have access to vaccines on a rolling basis. This will enable them to vaccinate as many people as they can reach ,” Associate Minister of Health Aupito William Sio says.

“These providers are trusted. They have the language skills and cultural intelligence to engage with Pacific communities effectively.They will mobilise vaccination services to make it easy for people to access services, such as holding temporary clinics in our churches, workplaces and where our communities gather.

“The second tranche of vaccinations will focus on non-border frontline workers and those living in high-risk settings. This includes those in the Counties Manukau DHB district over the age of 65 years or who live with relevant underlying health conditions.

“This will also include older members of our Pacific communities who don’t live in residential care facilities. This is important as we know many of our older Pacific peoples live at home supported by their aiga,” Aupito William Sio said.

Pacific health providers have the discretion to immunise family members living with older people, disabled people and people with relevant underlying health conditions when they accompany them to the appointment. This will be, however, with consideration to enough vaccine doses being available on site to meet expected demand until new deliveries arrive.

There are a range of measures that the Government will implement to ensure equity and support for Pacific Peoples throughout the COVID-19 vaccine programme, including:

Investing $10.5 million to support Pacific service delivery options.
Investing $4 million to support Pacific providers to deliver COVID-19 vaccines.
Investing $750,000 to support additional workforce training and development for Pacific Health providers and vaccinations.
Training and support to ensure the cultural competency of the vaccinator workforce.
Enabling community-based delivery so that Pacific people can easily access vaccination.
Developing accessible information in our nine Pacific languages.
Deliver a dedicated social marketing campaign to raise awareness for Pacific communities.
“The COVID-19 Immunisation roll-out has a specific focus on encouraging our Pacific communities to get vaccinated.

“Throughout the COVID-19 response, the Government has proactively recognised the need to ensure Pacific communities are vaccinated.

“The Ministry of Health is working in partnership with the Ministry for Pacific Peoples to deliver a targeted Pacific engagement campaign. This includes communications in our nine Pacific languages and across channels like radio, print media, zoom and face-to-face fono,” says Aupito William Sio.

GV27

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#2676881 19-Mar-2021 09:29

Handle9:

The government does nothing to support anyone who travels overseas.

It just runs a massively expensive MIQ system at the expense of the same taxpayers it's now saying would be on their own.

freitasm

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#2676882 19-Mar-2021 09:32

EU agency says AstraZeneca vaccine is 'safe and effective' - BBC News:

A review by the EU's medicines regulator has concluded the Oxford-AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine is "safe and effective".

The European Medicines Agency (EMA) investigated after 13 EU states suspended use of the vaccine over fears of a link to blood clots.

It found the jab was "not associated" with a higher risk of clots.

Italy, Spain and Germany announced they would resume using the jab.

It is up to individual EU states to decide whether and when to re-start vaccinations using the AstraZeneca vaccine.

The EMA's expert committee on medicine safety, Mrs Cooke said, found that "the vaccine is not associated with an increase in the overall risk of... blood clots".

But the EMA, she added, could not rule out definitively a link between the vaccine and a "small number of cases of rare and unusual but very serious clotting disorders".

Therefore the committee has, she said, recommended raising awareness of these possible risks, making sure they are included in the product information. Additional investigations are being launched, Mrs Cooke added.

freitasm

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#2676925 19-Mar-2021 09:37

GV27:

Handle9:

The government does nothing to support anyone who travels overseas.

It just runs a massively expensive MIQ system at the expense of the same taxpayers it's now saying would be on their own.

People that elect to go out of the country should know there should be delays in case of emergencies. If a lockdown is announced in Australia how quickly you think it would be to arrange for new flights to be available, bookings arranged, extra MIQ accommodation, etc?

People going overseas need to know travel is still not 100% as it was. This includes the chance of disruption, regardless of how "Safe" you think Australia and New Zealand are at the moment.

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#2676969 19-Mar-2021 09:41

freitasm:People going overseas need to know travel is still not 100% as it was. This includes the chance of disruption, regardless of how "Safe" you think Australia and New Zealand are at the moment.

Isn't that what "The Media" are for? Making it someone else's problem!

Fred99

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#2677016 19-Mar-2021 09:47

Handle9:

The government does nothing to support anyone who travels overseas. There were a ton of people stuck at the start of the pandemic and there was very little done outside of consular support and a couple of repatriation flights from India.

Why would people travelling to Australia be any different?

Uhh no.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/123847341/air-new-zealand-repatriates-7100-passengers-stranded-by-covid19-in-2020

Other country's repatriation charter flights arriving here to pick up px weren't arriving empty either, we saw the unusual site of Lufthansa (and other airlines) A380's arriving in Chch bringing NZers home, loading up here, dropping ie Thai residents in Bangkok, picking up more Germans there before flying home.

And then we shut the doors in mid-March. If we hadn't, we'd have a pile of dead people and would have spent the past year in lockdown, unless the "just the flu" crowd had won.

The "vector" that turns the next epidemic into a global pandemic will probably be airlines again.

GV27

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#2677028 19-Mar-2021 10:12

I just find the attitude of "you're on your own" towards Kiwis who live here and who might take a short holiday through a government-sanctioned travel bubble to be at odds with how Kiwis who moved overseas permanently had some inalienable right of return that we apparently weren't allowed to consider curtailing, despite there being a raging and ongoing global pandemic in the places those Kiwis were moving back from for the past 12 months.

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