2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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Biddle Corp

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#2681579 27-Mar-2021 19:29

Dratsab:

sbiddle: Should we be vaccinating all of our Police as a priority? We are, but why? How is their risk to society as a whole any different from say a supermarket worker or a bus driver?

Only police who work at borders and quarantine facilities are being vaccinated at present.

But the rest of the Police (at least a subset of those determined by MoH to be eligible) will be next in line along with ambulance staff and fire and emergency.

cshwone

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#2681580 27-Mar-2021 19:30

richms:

Noone misses out if they were bought in by someone else to the country. And since when is being more concerned about myself than other people such a bad thing?

Okay two points:

firstly,

So how do we get additional doses into the country when every contract is between government and the producer. And lets not forget the specific storage requirements.

secondly;

Thanks for being a part of the team of 5 million. I guess you have resigned from that membership.

Cheers,

To put a bit of perspective on it. I have had my first dose, but it has taken time. I am liable for border duties and many of my compatriots have yet to get their first dose (we need to rotate people) so it's when rather than if. we have to work. So to hear Richms come along with his needy, selfish and entitled view really got my back up. All that is wrong with NZ.

Handle9

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#2681587 27-Mar-2021 19:41

A question got asked and answered. The question wasn't how do I cheat or obfuscate the system, it was whether there was alternative supply. It's a fairly straightforward question.

What purpose does the pointless moralising serve?

richms

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#2681588 27-Mar-2021 19:48

Obviously you are happy with the order of the list they have made because you are at or near the top of it.

As someone with respiratory issues that are apparently not serious enough to warrant getting up their hierarchy, I am cast off into group 4, below prisoners then I will be looking for any reasonable priced alternative to get it a bit sooner. The team of 5 million referred to giving up income, shutting down things and wearing masks etc with minimal compensation for those actions. Not to sitting around waiting for a vaccine to be offered when there may be other options available.

Richard rich.ms

cshwone

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#2681589 27-Mar-2021 19:49

sbiddle:

You seem to have totally missed the whole point being made here.

The whole point of a hypothetical private vaccine is NOT to take vaccines away from current high risk people who are being vaccinated. The whole point would be to provide a parallel supply for those willing to pay. What exactly is wrong with this?

Should we just ban private healthcare and private hospitals that already allow people to have choice?

And you seem to have forgotten that there is no avenue for a private vaccination. There is no parallel supply. I am not talking about hypothetical supplies , you introduced that. I am talking about real life, as it is, for billions of people.

Your jump to the whole private healthcare debate is absolute nonsense when we are dealing with a government controlled and distributed vaccine.

richms

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#2681591 27-Mar-2021 19:52

cshwone:

And you seem to have forgotten that there is no avenue for a private vaccination. There is no parallel supply. I am not talking about hypothetical supplies , you introduced that. I am talking about real life, as it is, for billions of people.

Your jump to the whole private healthcare debate is absolute nonsense when we are dealing with a government controlled and distributed vaccine.

So now it has been answered that there is no alternative supply you can hop back onto your high horse and ride off and leave it.

Richard rich.ms

cshwone

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#2681592 27-Mar-2021 19:53

Handle9: A question got asked and answered. The question wasn't how do I cheat or obfuscate the system, it was whether there was alternative supply. It's a fairly straightforward question.

What purpose does the pointless moralising serve?

Thanks but I don't believe it was pointless. It served a purpose to educate.

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cshwone

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#2681635 27-Mar-2021 19:58

richms:

cshwone:

And you seem to have forgotten that there is no avenue for a private vaccination. There is no parallel supply. I am not talking about hypothetical supplies , you introduced that. I am talking about real life, as it is, for billions of people.

Your jump to the whole private healthcare debate is absolute nonsense when we are dealing with a government controlled and distributed vaccine.

So now it has been answered that there is no alternative supply you can hop back onto your high horse and ride off and leave it.

My horse is not high, I sympathise with your predicament now that you have explained it and would recommend you speak to your GP about getting yourself prioritized.

Handle9

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#2681637 27-Mar-2021 20:02

cshwone:
Handle9: A question got asked and answered. The question wasn't how do I cheat or obfuscate the system, it was whether there was alternative supply. It's a fairly straightforward question.

What purpose does the pointless moralising serve?

Thanks but I don't believe it was pointless. It served a purpose to educate.

I think we already knew that there were people who will waste no opportunity to judge without knowing any of the circumstances.

lxsw20

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#2681768 27-Mar-2021 21:19

sbiddle:

The whole point of a hypothetical private vaccine is NOT to take vaccines away from current high risk people who are being vaccinated. The whole point would be to provide a parallel supply for those willing to pay. What exactly is wrong with this?

Fine in theory, but what vaccine supplier doesn't have a huge commitment to global governments before they could even consider this? My bet is you'd get it through the public system before this would even be a reality.

Batman

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#2681776 27-Mar-2021 21:23

lxsw20:
sbiddle:

The whole point of a hypothetical private vaccine is NOT to take vaccines away from current high risk people who are being vaccinated. The whole point would be to provide a parallel supply for those willing to pay. What exactly is wrong with this?

Fine in theory, but what vaccine supplier doesn't have a huge commitment to global governments before they could even consider this? My bet is you'd get it through the public system before this would even be a reality.

I hear there are a bunch of AZ vaccines in Australia

Scott3

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#2681809 27-Mar-2021 23:04

Re immunizing the police force, I am a supporter of all emergency service frountliners being prioritized. Consider:

Having all front line police immunized, will give flexibility, and allow those deployed to MIQ facilities to be rotated.
Police seem to often be used in MIQ facilities where there are staffing issues and the likes. - Good to be vaccinated incase this comes up again.
General duty Police will be the initial responders to any MIQ breach related manhunts. May have to arrest a recent arrival who has yet to have a test result back etc.
General duty police could be called at any time to back up specialist airport police if there is an incident.
In the event of another community outbreak, police will need to keep doing their job. May involve arresting people with respiratory symptoms etc. At least supermarket workers don't have to touch their customers...

----------------------------------

Regarding vaccines for international travelers, I agree with prior posters that MIQ is our week link, and that we should be doing everything we can to allow out citizens and residents that are soon to depart internationally to get vaccinated on the assumption that a decent chunk of them will come back through the MIQ system in the next 12 months. I don't think the reason for travel is important for this as my main motivation is protecting New Zealand.

Some will be concerned that allowing all travelers to get vaccinated will encourage recreational travel, hence flooding the MIQ system. I think this should be dealt with as in independent issue via a prioritization system for MIQ space, with the likes of returning recreational travelers being at the bottom of the queue.

---------------------------------

Regarding vaccination's in workplaces, once the roll out gets to the general public stage, I can't see a reason why this can't be offered.

Either government funded (i.e. free), or with the business paying a small convenience fee. (The vaccines themselves are free, but I don't have an issue with say a $10 per staff member fee being charged for the convenience of it being done on site rather than at a GP or vaccination center.

Once we get to the general roll out stage, the goal will doing as many jabs a day as possible with the given resources. And also to capture people who are more reluctant to get the vaccine for any reason (including hassle). Workplace vaccination centers work great on both fronts.

Much easier & cheaper to allocate a vaccinator or two a rental car, laptop and a cold chain chilly bin to drive to workplaces and use their meeting rooms than it is to stand up vaccination centers with appropriate parking, and waiting areas for a large volume of people. Also the convenience of not needing to travel, and seeing many of their coworkers opting to get the vaccine may capture some of those not motivated to actively travel to a vaccination center, or hesitant about the vaccine.

Sure was a sweet service when my old workplace (CBD office tower) had on side flu jabs. I probability wouldn't have bother to make a medical center appointment to get one, but when it was a simple matter of booking into a 10min slot (I think they had 4 people per slot) and walking down the hall to the meeting room I sure did. Fact that work paid was the iceing on the cake.

Reality is that in order to vaccinate 2m or so people in the 2nd half of this year, vaccination are going to need to be working on as many fronts as possible. Giant US style vaccination centers with snaking queues of cars sure look good on TV, but are not partially convenient.

-----------------

Elephant in the room is that NZ has heaps of vaccine in stock (250k+ doses - Government has stopped telling us how much for some reason). So ramping up our roll out should be a major priory.

richms:

Noone misses out if they were bought in by someone else to the country. And since when is being more concerned about myself than other people such a bad thing?

It seems that the vaccine makers are selling only to countries at this stage. I think this is likely to continue for the foreseeable future. Would be quite a bad look for them to start selling to private customers.

Given this, allowing early access to the limited NZ government procured stock for a fee means less vaccine available for priory groups, and that their roll out would be slowed down. (Ignoring that we currently have 250k+ doses in stock, which is many weeks at current vaccination rates).

But in theory if you phoned up Pfizer (the maker of the only covid-19 vaccine approved in NZ), and ordered 200k doses to be delivered to your venture's ultra cold freezers, I don't think there would be any reason your appropriately qualified staff couldn't administer them for a fee of your choosing.

sbiddle

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#2681875 28-Mar-2021 09:59

cshwone:

sbiddle:

You seem to have totally missed the whole point being made here.

The whole point of a hypothetical private vaccine is NOT to take vaccines away from current high risk people who are being vaccinated. The whole point would be to provide a parallel supply for those willing to pay. What exactly is wrong with this?

Should we just ban private healthcare and private hospitals that already allow people to have choice?

And you seem to have forgotten that there is no avenue for a private vaccination. There is no parallel supply. I am not talking about hypothetical supplies , you introduced that. I am talking about real life, as it is, for billions of people.

Your jump to the whole private healthcare debate is absolute nonsense when we are dealing with a government controlled and distributed vaccine.

There is no private parallel supply *yet*. That's not to say it will never happen. Maybe it won't, but right now there is no law making it illegal in NZ (nor Australia for that matter) to offer private vaccines.

The only issue preventing that right now is the supply chain, and the fact that in NZ any private vaccine could only be Pfizer (because that's all that is approved for use here), and in Australia it could only be Pfizer or the EU or Melbourne produced AstraZeneca because they're the only three options approved by the TGA.

sbiddle

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#2681881 28-Mar-2021 10:16

Scott3:

Re immunizing the police force, I am a supporter of all emergency service frountliners being prioritized. Consider:

Having all front line police immunized, will give flexibility, and allow those deployed to MIQ facilities to be rotated.
Police seem to often be used in MIQ facilities where there are staffing issues and the likes. - Good to be vaccinated incase this comes up again.
General duty Police will be the initial responders to any MIQ breach related manhunts. May have to arrest a recent arrival who has yet to have a test result back etc.
General duty police could be called at any time to back up specialist airport police if there is an incident.
In the event of another community outbreak, police will need to keep doing their job. May involve arresting people with respiratory symptoms etc. At least supermarket workers don't have to touch their customers...

Police who are involved with MIQ and/or at the border have already been vaccinated.

With your comments in mind what are your thought on the proposed rollout for Fire & Emergency? Initially it seemed that all people within the organisation would be part of the group 2 rollout, but it now seems that the MoH want to prioritise this to staff / brigades that are medical co-responders first, and seemingly those in areas that are higher risk such as Christchurch, Wellington and Auckland where permanent crews would attend any alarm activations or incidents at a MIQ facility. Outside this others may fall way down the list and possibly not even be prioritised.

My interest in this is because I'm a volunteer - and I see the MoH focus solely from the medical perspective an interesting one. If there is another case of CT that was more widespread fire trucks still need to go to calls, and as much as you're trying to limit interaction with members of the public, you've still got the scenario of volunteers in particular who are still members of society who are out and about.

When you look at pretty much every recent CT case in NZ over the past 6 months most people have not suffered any health issues that would require them to call an ambulance for assistance (which could also mean a big red truck turns up if an ambulance is delayed), but it's been people who have been living normally who have suddenly found they've tested positive after minor symptoms, or even no issues at all. While the MoH focus on the risk of attending a medical call, it could very easily be something as simple as a fire alarm at a school or a gym that sees FENZ crews being unwittingly exposed.

No matter how how we prioritise things there are always going to be so many edge cases..

ezbee

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#2681937 28-Mar-2021 11:14

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