2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2749265 24-Jul-2021 18:37

sbiddle:

Delta shows up our alert levels as well, because it's pretty clear now that had the Sydney visitor to Wellington infected anybody here that the level 2 restrictions we put in place would have done absolutely nothing to prevent any further CT.

Counting the days since the positive wastewater sample in Taranaki, if that's from an active case and we don't find it quickly (ie next day or two) NZ could be in all kinds of dire trouble.

dafman

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#2749267 24-Jul-2021 18:46

sbiddle:

It's not just about tourism - there are businesses in this country now being crippled by border closures and the inability to actually sell and support products due to the fact it's impossible to get MIQ space.

Yes, some businesses are doing it very hard. But not the overall economy, it’s going gangbusters.

dafman

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#2749268 24-Jul-2021 18:53

I just can’t see how we can have tens of thousands return from Aussie in its current state and dodge the bullet.

The travel bubble was always destined to end badly, with our vaccination roll out going poorly and hospitals ill prepared to handle Delta.

Buckle in (and please wear your masks in public transport and keep scanning).

Batman

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#2749270 24-Jul-2021 18:56

dafman:

I just can’t see how we can have tens of thousands return from Aussie in its current state and dodge the bullet.

we will know in due time

Batman

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#2749271 24-Jul-2021 18:57

dafman:

Yes, some businesses are doing it very hard. But not the overall economy, it’s going gangbusters.

i wonder if it's because people's house prices have gone up by the gazillions and so they take loans and buy everything they want

dafman

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#2749275 24-Jul-2021 19:10

And game over, absolutely, in Aussie. The Delta genie is well and truly out.

Fred99

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#2749278 24-Jul-2021 19:14

dafman:

And game over, absolutely, in Aussie. The Delta genie is well and truly out.

I'm not that pessimistic. While the numbers are higher, Vic and SA seem to have been able to contain it.

Problem is doing what's needed will seriously hurt the pride of a couple of Aussie politicians (and probably more important - their wealthy sponsors won't like it, individual politicians are expendable - source: a couple of decades of Australian political history).

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mattwnz

20141 posts

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#2749280 24-Jul-2021 19:23

Batman:
dafman:

Yes, some businesses are doing it very hard. But not the overall economy, it’s going gangbusters.

i wonder if it's because people's house prices have gone up by the gazillions and so they take loans and buy everything they want

Yes. NZs 'recovery ' is largely based around the insane house price increases which makes people feel rich. So industries based around housing are a significant factor in the inflation occurring. I heard however that timber and material prices overseas had dropped back, so will be interesting to if NZs prices drop back too.

mattwnz

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#2749286 24-Jul-2021 19:33

tdgeek:
mattwnz: I think we will need to get to the point where vaccination will have to be compulsory, for the benefitof the country. There are things people have to legally do and this should be one. Some people won't do it because they can't be bothered, which is where payments should come in once people have been double vaccinated. They are providing incentives overseas. We don't want to be stuck at the 70% mark, as we need to be 99%+ for the country to reopen. I don't think we are doing a very good job with the rollout, and that is partly due to our current legacy systems. But because supplies are limited it probably isn't affecting it too badly

No, no, no. We can't pay people to vaccinate. We don't pay people to get a flu jab, nor to not run red lights.

If we all got vaccinated and 23% didn't (based on a past poll) what more can we do if we have educated and TV ads everywhere? Those that chose to not vaccinate, despite education, will suffer. They had their chance, they got educated. And of those us that got vaccinated will be generally fine, those that didn't, will either be fine, get sick, or die, then they will be fine.

Remember we want herd immunity. We will get that, but I dont want my taxpayer dollars paying idiots. They will get Covid, mostly recover, then be part of herd immunity. Done. If you want to pay them, pay me each time I stop at a red light.

There isn't really a cost, because the advantages having a fully vaccinated population will mean that the country can start making more income faster, as we can fully open up sooner. So it is an investment. The US are offering benefits like sweepstakes. How about a sweepstake to go in the draw for a house? lt it is a bit like a helicopter payment, but this time it benefits everyone, rather than the printed money pumping up house prices. They could do it with a prezzie card, which must be spent with local businesses. So the money just gets recycled in the economy. The governemnt has plenty of printed money to spend on this and had put some aside for covid related things. A 200 dollar payment would cost a billion. How much have tax payers spend on MIQ? Over a billion? Imo very small price to get people vaccinated.

Buster

297 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2749291 24-Jul-2021 19:55

mattwnz:
tdgeek:

No, no, no. We can't pay people to vaccinate.

There isn't really a cost, because the advantages having a fully vaccinated population will mean that the country can start making more income faster, as we can fully open up sooner. So it is an investment. The US are offering benefits like sweepstakes. How about a sweepstake to go in the draw for a house? lt it is a bit like a helicopter payment, but this time it benefits everyone, rather than the printed money pumping up house prices. They could do it with a prezzie card, which must be spent with local businesses. So the money just gets recycled in the economy. The governemnt has plenty of printed money to spend on this and had put some aside for covid related things. A 200 dollar payment would cost a billion. How much have tax payers spend on MIQ? Over a billion? Imo very small price to get people vaccinated.

I doubt there is much appetite for this. I do wonder if this idea is behind the low uptake of vaccination at our ports/border workers. 'Pay us already' to get the jab.

Where does it end? Do we need to pay everyone to get booster shots too?

Maybe a few of them need to see/experience Delta first hand for the message to get through.

Some people learn things the hard way. That's just the way it is.

mattwnz

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#2749372 24-Jul-2021 22:28

I can’t see how NZs health system could cope if a big number of people didn’t get vaccinated. The cost will be to those people on waiting lists for other ailments that could suffer or die prematurely because their treatments get canceled, due to Covid unvaccinated people. NZ opening up Is going to get delayed and we could have some form of travel restrictions for years. IMO the cost is minor compared to cost of Covid so far, and any payments go to boast the local economy anyway. Imo the government should have done helicopter
Payments like they did in the US

sbiddle

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#2749393 25-Jul-2021 08:10

Fred99:

sbiddle:

Delta shows up our alert levels as well, because it's pretty clear now that had the Sydney visitor to Wellington infected anybody here that the level 2 restrictions we put in place would have done absolutely nothing to prevent any further CT.

Counting the days since the positive wastewater sample in Taranaki, if that's from an active case and we don't find it quickly (ie next day or two) NZ could be in all kinds of dire trouble.

MoH messaging about this is sooooo broken. We still have so much to learn.

On Friday night they're telling everybody it's nothing and most probably just somebody who's not infectious shedding virus particles.

This morning they're basically begging people to be tested.

Batman

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#2749394 25-Jul-2021 08:16

sbiddle:

MoH messaging about this is sooooo broken. We still have so much to learn.

On Friday night they're telling everybody it's nothing and most probably just somebody who's not infectious shedding virus particles.

This morning they're basically begging people to be tested.

i'm still seething that after 2 years they had not trained any staff to poke needles.

sbiddle

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#2749395 25-Jul-2021 08:17

Australia has now announced they've ordered 85 million does of Pfizer for delivery in 2022 and 2023 and plans to start booster doses from February next year.

I wonder how far NZ have got with planning for this or whether we'll be back of the queue again?

tdgeek

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#2749398 25-Jul-2021 08:53

mattwnz:

Yes. NZs 'recovery ' is largely based around the insane house price increases which makes people feel rich. So industries based around housing are a significant factor in the inflation occurring. I heard however that timber and material prices overseas had dropped back, so will be interesting to if NZs prices drop back too.

Feeling rich doesn't add to the economy. You can borrow that richness, which benefits the economy. But you had equity anyway so you could have done that at any time.

Timber is a supply issue. Imported timber is affected by shipping issues re Covid, there is a building boom so local timber has been tight.

All explained, no conspiracy.

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