2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2754136 2-Aug-2021 23:41

Batman:

i think getting into an argument with someone won't change their mind.

perhaps try a neutral dialogue and see where it goes. gives a better chance.

Nope. Not with anti-vaxxers and freedumb warriors. They're dangerous idiots who need to have their behaviour modified in much the same way drunk drivers or people who wanted to smoke in restaurants and bars. You want to take part in society? Follow some rules to respect the rights of the majority, or face the consequences.

Those rules were perfectly reasonable - no? You want to have a neutral dialogue with a drunken moron about to hit the road in a car?

Well get with the program - morons. There's no "neutral dialogue" when there's no rational "both sides" to the argument.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01260-6

Anti-vaxxers are training each other in identifying potential targets online. They discuss their tactics for deepening people’s fears, sowing doubt as to whether people should take a vaccine, deepening vaccine hesitancy, and converting the chosen few into fully fledged anti-vaxxers—the people who further propagate the lies.

One of these people seemed to have joined the discussion in this forum today. Came in to deliberately spread FUD, failed to back up any of his dangerous claims - which were lies. Clearly not interested in "neutral dialogue". You'll be wasting your time - and facilitating a platform for more misinformation (aka lies).

neb

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#2754152 3-Aug-2021 00:12

sbiddle:
The story was doing the rounds last week on conspiracy (where I read it) and conservative news sites - it's actually 6.72 and it's based off some Israeli data. It's also apparently a big conspiracy that Bing shows all the links to this work but Google doesn't because they're suppressing the truth...

Ah, the old Fox News viewer logic, "Fox News tells you the truth, they report stuff that every other news network on the planet suppresses".

In terms of the other response challenging Fourpeak to explain how mRNA vaccines are made and how they work, any Fox viewer knows the answer: They're made from the blood of aborted foetuses, they alter your DNA, they cause infertility in 97% of recipients, and vast numbers of people who have had it have died but all the news is being suppressed by everyone except Fox.

Oh, and Bing searches.

neb

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#2754153 3-Aug-2021 00:15

Fred99:
I know many vegans, all of them have either been vaccinated or plan to be vaccinated.

So do I. That doesn't mean that some vegans aren't using it as an excuse to be anti-vax, without the stigma of being labelled antivaxxers.

Fred99

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#2754155 3-Aug-2021 00:26

neb:
Fred99:

I know many vegans, all of them have either been vaccinated or plan to be vaccinated.

So do I. That doesn't mean that some vegans aren't using it as an excuse to be anti-vax, without the stigma of being labelled antivaxxers.

Can you please re-read what you wrote there, then tell me it actually makes sense?

The claim was made that vegans are inherently anti-vaxxers. I don't believe it because I've seen no obvious correlation in the circle of people I know which includes quite a few vegans. Most of the vegans I know own pets, they have them vaccinated too - in fact they seem to be - if anything - extra cautious about the wellbeing of their pets or any other animal, including us.

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#2754156 3-Aug-2021 00:41

Fred99:
The claim was made that vegans are inherently anti-vaxxers.

Quite possibly, but not by me. Go complain to whoever said it.

Batman

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#2754171 3-Aug-2021 06:58

https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-vaccine-updates-08-02-21/h_4258aa07cbf2206435b5f84328ddab33

Less than 1% of fully vaccinated people experienced a breakthrough infection,

less than 0.004% of people who have been fully vaccinated against Covid-19 experienced a breakthrough case resulting in hospitalization,

less than 0.001% have died from the disease. That’s about 6,600 severe breakthrough cases out of more than 163 million fully vaccinated people.

more than 95%-98% of hospitalizations and deaths – have been among unvaccinated people

though that should change with newer strains

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#2754188 3-Aug-2021 07:23

DS248:

As at 30 June 20, they estimate the 15+ population as 81.0% of total. Doing a bit of judicious scaling gives 12+ as ~85.3% of total.

Based on total population of 5.116m as at 31 March gives the 12+ population as 4.36m.

8m doses therefore corresponds to ~91.7% of the population fully vaccinated.

I posted about this a few weeks ago in here with some stats.

Finding the true split of age groups was difficult (and I didn't find a definitive source) but my estimate was 15% of the total population (750,000) aged from 0-11 meaning 85% of the total population are aged 12+ so it's good your numbers are similar.

I realistically don't see us hitting any more than 75% of the total population fully vaccinated by the end of the year.

tdgeek

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#2754190 3-Aug-2021 07:35

Fourpeak:

If you want to get vaccinated that's fine but what other people do is up to them and none of your business especially considering you can still catch covid after 2 doses of vaccine. Im not anti vaxx but will be sitting this one out and the idea that should be restricted in my Daily life because of a personal choice doesn't well with me. I thought we lived in a democracy not a communist dictatorship.

We live in a democracy, but with this topic, its not the population voting that matters, its the population vaccinating that matters. Antivaxxers...... will cause an ongoing problem, so its quite possible that your freedom of choice may also require the vaccine card. Democracy, all of us working together, and I imagine that vast majority would support that move if it was made.

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#2754202 3-Aug-2021 08:11

Fourpeak:

If you want to get vaccinated that's fine but what other people do is up to them and none of your business especially considering you can still catch covid after 2 doses of vaccine. Im not anti vaxx but will be sitting this one out and the idea that should be restricted in my Daily life because of a personal choice doesn't well with me. I thought we lived in a democracy not a communist dictatorship.

Freedom of choice is not a one way option (just for you) and living in a democracy does not mean you can demand others have to entertain your custom. Just as you exercise your freedom of choice to not opt for vaccination, so businesses and social event organisers can also exercise their freedom of choice to exclude unvaccinated from their premises to minimise risk to them and their patrons.

DS248

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#2754205 3-Aug-2021 08:21

sbiddle:

DS248:

As at 30 June 20, they estimate the 15+ population as 81.0% of total. Doing a bit of judicious scaling gives 12+ as ~85.3% of total.

Based on total population of 5.116m as at 31 March gives the 12+ population as 4.36m.

8m doses therefore corresponds to ~91.7% of the population fully vaccinated.

I posted about this a few weeks ago in here with some stats.

Finding the true split of age groups was difficult (and I didn't find a definitive source) but my estimate was 15% of the total population (750,000) aged from 0-11 meaning 85% of the total population are aged 12+ so it's good your numbers are similar.

I realistically don't see us hitting any more than 75% of the total population fully vaccinated by the end of the year.

Just noticed I missed out one 'word' in my last sentence above 🙃. Was intended to say:

"8m doses therefore corresponds to ~91.7% of the 12+ population fully vaccinated".

8m /2 / 5.116m is of course 78% of the total population. So not so different from your 75%. Yes, I agree - doubt we will get above that by the end of the year.

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#2754220 3-Aug-2021 08:57

dafman:

Fourpeak:

If you want to get vaccinated that's fine but what other people do is up to them and none of your business especially considering you can still catch covid after 2 doses of vaccine. Im not anti vaxx but will be sitting this one out and the idea that should be restricted in my Daily life because of a personal choice doesn't well with me. I thought we lived in a democracy not a communist dictatorship.

Freedom of choice is not a one way option (just for you) and living in a democracy does not mean you can demand others have to entertain your custom. Just as you exercise your freedom of choice to not opt for vaccination, so businesses and social event organisers can also exercise their freedom of choice to exclude unvaccinated from their premises to minimise risk to them and their patrons.

Agreed businesses can have a choice to exclude the unvaccinated and not be required to.

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#2754223 3-Aug-2021 09:00

dafman:
Fourpeak:

If you want to get vaccinated that's fine but what other people do is up to them and none of your business especially considering you can still catch covid after 2 doses of vaccine. Im not anti vaxx but will be sitting this one out and the idea that should be restricted in my Daily life because of a personal choice doesn't well with me. I thought we lived in a democracy not a communist dictatorship.

Freedom of choice is not a one way option (just for you) and living in a democracy does not mean you can demand others have to entertain your custom. Just as you exercise your freedom of choice to not opt for vaccination, so businesses and social event organisers can also exercise their freedom of choice to exclude unvaccinated from their premises to minimise risk to them and their patrons.

So let me get this right, your saying that someone choosing not to get vaccinated somehow makes it less safe for vaccinated people?? That doesn't make sense to me. Eventually everyone is going to catch Covid19. Those that are vaccinated may have less symptoms but will still catch and spead Covid. While those unvaccinated will catch Covid recover and gain natural immunity which is what happens to 99.5% of people while the other small percentage of people will die. No Need for vaccine passports and other discriminating rules.

tdgeek

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#2754230 3-Aug-2021 09:06

Fourpeak:

So let me get this right, your saying that someone choosing not to get vaccinated somehow makes it less safe for vaccinated people?? That doesn't make sense to me. Eventually everyone is going to catch Covid19. Those that are vaccinated may have less symptoms but will still catch and spead Covid. While those unvaccinated will catch Covid recover and gain natural immunity which is what happens to 99.5% of people while the other small percentage of people will die. No Need for vaccine passports and other discriminating rules.

You yourself said that vaccinated people can catch it, now you can't understand why anti vaxxers ,make it less safe? Now, that makes no sense. Kids are not vaccinated, some people with health issues are told not to get vaccinated, and those few that are vaccinated but they arent part of the x% effectiveness, these are all at risk

As you are an anti vaxxer, please don't try to justify it to suit your desire

Fred99

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#2754231 3-Aug-2021 09:09

Fourpeak:

So let me get this right, your saying that someone choosing not to get vaccinated somehow makes it less safe for vaccinated people?? That doesn't make sense to me. Eventually everyone is going to catch Covid19. Those that are vaccinated may have less symptoms but will still catch and spead Covid. While those unvaccinated will catch Covid recover and gain natural immunity which is what happens to 99.5% of people while the other small percentage of people will die. No Need for vaccine passports and other discriminating rules.

More pure unadulterated antivax BS.

dafman

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#2754234 3-Aug-2021 09:14

Fred99:

Fourpeak :

So if Someone doesn't agree with you their a "sad ignorant loser"

I didn't accuse you of that - I accused "freedumb warriors" of being sad ignorant losers.

If you self-identify as a freedumb warrior, then 'nuff said I guess.

If you genuinely want to assist someone to question their view on something, insults are unlikely to succeed in doing so.

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