2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

1 | ... | 1488 | 1489 | 1490 | 1491 | 1492 | 1493 | 1494 | 1495 | 1496 | 1497 | 1498 | ... | 2429

30853 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9996

Retired Mod

Trusted

Biddle Corp

Lifetime subscriber

#2754884 4-Aug-2021 07:31

It worries me that NZ will see a lackluster response to vaccines from the last 20% or so of the adult population because "we don't have Covid" and people don't grasp the fact we will have Covid and that it will be an endemic virus the minute we open our borders up.

I know several people who fall into this category, and I would summarise their level of knowledge of global events and current affairs as being incredibly poor as well. It's becoming pretty clear now the last big wave of this global pandemic will be in the unvaccinated, and I don't think most really understand the risks they are facing.

tdgeek

30048 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9455

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2754888 4-Aug-2021 07:39

sbiddle:

It worries me that NZ will see a lackluster response to vaccines from the last 20% or so of the adult population because "we don't have Covid" and people don't grasp the fact we will have Covid and that it will be an endemic virus the minute we open our borders up.

I know several people who fall into this category, and I would summarise their level of knowledge of global events and current affairs as being incredibly poor as well. It's becoming pretty clear now the last big wave of this global pandemic will be in the unvaccinated, and I don't think most really understand the risks they are facing.

Agree, I imagine that's probably an issue everywhere. When the words "border opening up" occur daily in the media towards end of year, many will quietly get vaccinated. The others, well I'll just advise those I know that a jab is a safer physiological option than catching it and getting immunity. One I know, who is normal, not out there, seems to take the minority opposing views as default on many issues

Batman

Mad Scientist
30018 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6218

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2754889 4-Aug-2021 07:52

mudguard:

I'm in a difficult position. My partner is pretty firmly anti-vaxx, in fact anti a lot of things, until now it hadn't really been an issue. I don't push it, other than ask her questions when she mentions things about vaccines. I prefer not to discuss it even though mainly as I don't know how. I'm very diplomatic, but I will line up for my jab as soon as it's available but I know she won't and will see it as an attempt at control rather than a community effort to suppress a virus.

Sigh. Maybe this should be in the things that annoy me thread.

i have relatives, friends and acquaintances who are the same. we have learnt to coexist.

in a country where choice is free, this is inherently the result of our education system. they teach you to be who you are, free to choose who you want to be, etc etc. this is the result.

i know someone from another country when they were in a pregnant state their fetus were aborted without consent because they were not free to have kids for example. that's the opposite.

anyway back to the subject - i choose not to label these friends and relatives as anti anything. as soon as i label them the capacity for dialogue is lost, the chance of change is lost, and a superiority complex is formed.

i prefer to see where they coming from and i use my wits.

so far i have counted about 20 people that who came to me saying they won't have the vaccine and who now have had the vaccine. my mom included. all because i took time to have a conversation with them, not once but over the course of a year for some of them.

a few of them now regularly send me links of articles and i can explain to them what is right or wrong with them articles. a lot of the articles are actually factual but twisted to show a different conclusion. when i explained the original facts in the articles and where it's twisted they can see how they went wrong.

but no i don't go up to random people and start arguing. that achieves nothing and pushes them towards the point of no return.

PolicyGuy

1823 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1774

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#2754890 4-Aug-2021 07:57

Dratsab:

antonknee: I feel now would be an appropriate time to say that I was a little hesitant to get the COVID 19 vaccine. I was personally somewhat concerned about the newness of mRNA, and that these vaccines have not spent as long in development as they traditionally would have, and also a little fearful of side effects. This is why despite being group 3, and therefore eligible a while back, I have not been vaccinated until last week.

Interestingly, I'm quite opposite. As someone who works at a border I was champing at the bit to get mine. By the time it was being rolled out in NZ, quite literally millions of people had already received it and I wasn't seeing anything which gave pause for concern. That said I wasn't using Facebook to read up on developments. mRNA research has been ongoing for a few dacades now, it's not new as anti-vaxxers would try to have people believe, and the studies that have gone along with this have not revealed any long term side effects.

I too was initially a bit unsettled about this new (to me, anyway) mRNA vaccine technology, so I was really quite pleased that the lack of local transmission allowed the NZ government to not take a crash-through approach to Covid-19 vaccination.

By the time my opportunity came up - 29th May, I'm in Group 3 - I was happy that millions of people around the world and hundreds of thousands of Kiwis had taken the Pfizer vaccine without significant detriment and with huge personal and community benefit. No longer any doubt or hesitancy at all, I just had the jabs - much to the happiness of my children, I must say.

Thanks to the MoH & government for securing the vaccine supply
Thanks to the Whanganui DHB for doing an excellent job of getting the vaccine into arms

Sidestep

1019 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 567

Lifetime subscriber

#2754899 4-Aug-2021 08:52

freitasm:

The moment people start going on debunked conspiracy theories or using the sentence "I thought we lived in a democracy not a communist dictatorship." pretty much indicates the poster is an anti-vaxxer and conspiracy theorist.

Studies show the anti-vax crowd is also more conservative, more religious, less educated, and more likely to be climate change deniers than the average.

Anyway you can only do so much... Here in Alberta vaccines have been freely available for months.

You can walk in off the street to chemists, doctors, drive throughs or supermarkets and get your choice of shot with no booking. The government ran lotteries, gave out cash prizes and vaccinated people by house-call if they couldn’t go out. Still, over 30% of the population won’t get vaccinated.

What’s a freedom loving government to do?
Throw everything wide open and let nature take it’s course is the answer..

They’ll no longer require people who test positive for covid to isolate, and will stop routinely testing those with symptoms. There’ll be no more contact tracing (except for high-risk settings) and masks will no longer be required, even in schools and on public transport.

The province’s Chief Medical Officer said covid will be treated as part of life in Alberta now, treated the same way the province approaches other respiratory viruses.

The news was met with jubilation by Churches, conservatives and the very vocal anti-vax protesters who’ve seemed to be everywhere lately. The very same who've been protected (until now) by mass masking and a 60% vaccine uptake. You'd think they'd be having a quiet re-think about now.

I see some hospitals are installing marquee tent externsions to their ER’s - maybe there’s an almighty cull about to take place.
New Zealand will face the same dilemma sooner or later.

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
80682 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 41136

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#2754900 4-Aug-2021 09:14

Sidestep:

What’s a freedom loving government to do?

Throw everything wide open and let nature take it’s course is the answer..

They’ll no longer require people who test positive for covid to isolate, and will stop routinely testing those with symptoms. There’ll be no more contact tracing (except for high-risk settings) and masks will no longer be required, even in schools and on public transport.

The province’s Chief Medical Officer said covid will be treated as part of life in Alberta now, treated the same way the province approaches other respiratory viruses.

The news was met with jubilation by Churches, conservatives and the very vocal anti-vax protesters who’ve seemed to be everywhere lately. The very same who've been protected (until now) by mass masking and a 60% vaccine uptake. You'd think they'd be having a quiet re-think about now.

I see some hospitals are installing marquee tent externsions to their ER’s - maybe there’s an almighty cull about to take place. New Zealand will face the same dilemma sooner or later.

Providing we open up when those who want to get the vaccine have then, I am ok with it. As @sbiddle said, it will be endemic and we will have to live with it. Give a change for vaccination to happen and whoever doesn't want it... So be it.

Those who can't have it will have to trust the majority will get vaccinated and hospitals will not be overloaded so there will be treatment for those who need it but can't have the vaccine.

For those denialists... Too bad, there will be treatment but vaccines are used BEFORE you get sick.

Referral links: Quic Broadband (free setup code: R587125ERQ6VE) | Samsung | AliExpress | Wise | Sharesies

Support Geekzone by subscribing (browse ads-free), or making a one-off or recurring donation through PressPatron.

New World

Shop on-line at New World now for your groceries (affiliate link).

dafman

4057 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2656

Trusted

#2754902 4-Aug-2021 09:25

Personal attacks on people who are not pro-vaccine (eg, free-dumb warriors, morons, viruses) and the unilateral cancelling of opposing views. Neither of those are me - but, as @antonknee rightfully pointed out, it's not my forum anyway.

Not to leave on a sour note. Thanks for the forum. And to everyone I have locked horns with, and to those I haven't, you know who you are, all the very best, it was fun.

Stay safe, get the vaccine (Delta is coming) but please show empathy for others in these difficult times.

Signing off with post #3,746

Noho ora mai

floydbloke

3649 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4557

ID Verified

#2754906 4-Aug-2021 09:31

sbiddle:

It worries me that NZ will see a lackluster response to vaccines from the last 20% or so of the adult population because "we don't have Covid" and people don't grasp the fact we will have Covid and that it will be an endemic virus the minute we open our borders up.

I know several people who fall into this category, and I would summarise their level of knowledge of global events and current affairs as being incredibly poor as well. It's becoming pretty clear now the last big wave of this global pandemic will be in the unvaccinated, and I don't think most really understand the risks they are facing.

I know this is not a political discussion, but I expect this last 20% to be rather vocal and the way this government seems to pander to vocal minorities the opening up of our borders will be quite some time away me thinks. ('Open borders' is a rather ambiguous term but if we're talking quarantine free travel to/from main holiday and trade destinations I'm going to guess not before mid 2022.)

Sometimes I use big words I don't always fully understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.

Technofreak

6659 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3480

Trusted

#2754919 4-Aug-2021 10:15

mudguard:
I'm in a difficult position. My partner is pretty firmly anti-vaxx, in fact anti a lot of things, until now it hadn't really been an issue. I don't push it, other than ask her questions when she mentions things about vaccines. I prefer not to discuss it even though mainly as I don't know how. I'm very diplomatic, but I will line up for my jab as soon as it's available but I know she won't and will see it as an attempt at control rather than a community effort to suppress a virus.

Sigh. Maybe this should be in the things that annoy me thread.

It probably deserves a thread all of it's own. I have family members in this situation.

This post from Batman sums up my sentiments.

I have relatives, friends and acquaintances who are the same. we have learnt to coexist.

In a country where choice is free, this is inherently the result of our education system. they teach you to be who you are, free to choose who you want to be, etc etc. This is the result.

I know someone from another country when they were in a pregnant state their fetus were aborted without consent because they were not free to have kids for example. That's the opposite.

Anyway back to the subject - I choose not to label these friends and relatives as anti anything. As soon as I label them the capacity for dialogue is lost, the chance of change is lost, and a superiority complex is formed.

I prefer to see where they coming from and I use my wits.

So far I have counted about 20 people that who came to me saying they won't have the vaccine and who now have had the vaccine. my mom included. All because I took time to have a conversation with them, not once but over the course of a year for some of them.

A few of them now regularly send me links of articles and I can explain to them what is right or wrong with them articles. A lot of the articles are actually factual but twisted to show a different conclusion. When I explained the original facts in the articles and where it's twisted they can see how they went wrong.

But no I don't go up to random people and start arguing. That achieves nothing and pushes them even further towards the point of no return.

Sony Xperia XA2 running Sailfish OS. https://sailfishos.org The true independent open source mobile OS
Samsung Galaxy Tab S6
Dell Inspiron 14z i5

Rikkitic

Awrrr
19086 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 16356

Lifetime subscriber

#2754949 4-Aug-2021 10:59

I am in a similar position, which is why I have largely stayed out of this discussion. My very best mate has gone down the conspiracy rabbit hole. We know each other's beliefs and we respect each other's right to think different things. We have discussed the issue, but are unlikely to change our minds. Truth is what the majority of people believe it to be. I suspect the authorities he listens to are self-appointed charlatans, but he feels the same way about the media I follow. He is a great guy, caring, generous, kind, and no, I am not interested in polemic arguments about how refusing to get vaccinated is uncaring, selfish and unkind. He is not religious, or stupid, or ignorant, and he is utterly sincere in his belief that vaccination is and should be a personal choice. I am not defending him and he knows how I feel about it, but I am also not prepared to abandon a close friendship of many years over this issue. Is he endangering others with his refusal? I don't know. I hope not. I hope enough do get vaccinated, as I have, to create a sufficient safety net. The only point I am making here is not everyone who questions vaccination efficacy is a wild-eyed religious fanatic. People believe different things for different reasons.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

frankv

5705 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3666

Lifetime subscriber

#2754951 4-Aug-2021 11:05

freitasm:

For those denialists... Too bad, there will be treatment but vaccines are used BEFORE you get sick.

I'm ambivalent. They've made their decision, so will have to live with the consequences. But, actually, I don't want our limited Health budget spent on their hospitalisation. And I don't want ICUs full of covid-infected anti-vaxxers preventing other people from getting the operations that they need. But anti-vaxxers are still Kiwis, and as such entitled to health care. And I believe there's more benefit for all Kiwis if we are inclusive, rather than marginalising minorities. Even a minority that I strenuously disagree with. (There are, after all, many minorities (and some majorities) that I disagree with strenuously. And we're all members of one minority or other).

Mighty Ape

Shop now at Mighty Ape (affiliate link).

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
80682 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 41136

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#2754957 4-Aug-2021 11:15

frankv:

freitasm:

For those denialists... Too bad, there will be treatment but vaccines are used BEFORE you get sick.

I'm ambivalent. They've made their decision, so will have to live with the consequences. But, actually, I don't want our limited Health budget spent on their hospitalisation. And I don't want ICUs full of covid-infected anti-vaxxers preventing other people from getting the operations that they need. But anti-vaxxers are still Kiwis, and as such entitled to health care. And I believe there's more benefit for all Kiwis if we are inclusive, rather than marginalising minorities. Even a minority that I strenuously disagree with. (There are, after all, many minorities (and some majorities) that I disagree with strenuously. And we're all members of one minority or other).

I didn't say "deny healthcare". I said they will need it more than others. And reading some reports from the USA, where some unvaccinated people request a vaccine while in hospital care, it's important to let people know a vaccine is not a cure, it's prevention.

And as you noted, these people will block health resources when they reach out for healthcare, denying people with often non-preventable diseases or injuries the level of care they deserve.

Referral links: Quic Broadband (free setup code: R587125ERQ6VE) | Samsung | AliExpress | Wise | Sharesies

Support Geekzone by subscribing (browse ads-free), or making a one-off or recurring donation through PressPatron.

Batman

Mad Scientist
30018 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 6218

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2754959 4-Aug-2021 11:19

looks like Delta is causing issues in CHina

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-coronavirus-china-orders-mass-testing-in-wuhan-as-outbreak-spreads/DAEUS3R2DGJ4VGVWCJKGYJI2PE/

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-58021911

Rikkitic

Awrrr
19086 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 16356

Lifetime subscriber

#2754963 4-Aug-2021 11:30

freitasm:

And as you noted, these people will block health resources when they reach out for healthcare, denying people with often non-preventable diseases or injuries the level of care they deserve.

This is a valid point but it applies equally to those who burden the health system because of disease that results from lifestyle choices. We have some of the highest rates in the world for certain cancers, like bowel cancer, that are probably related to poor diet, as is obesity (also one of the highest) and diabetes resulting from that. It can be argued that these people also take up space denying others with non-preventable diseases or injuries the level of care they deserve. What is the difference?

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

GV27

5979 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4212

#2754965 4-Aug-2021 11:44

Rikkitic:

What is the difference?

A huge one-off influx of an outbreak of a virus in the community that swamps a health system vs. demographics that can be modelled and prepared for, possibly years in advance to optimise treatment/interventions?

1 | ... | 1488 | 1489 | 1490 | 1491 | 1492 | 1493 | 1494 | 1495 | 1496 | 1497 | 1498 | ... | 2429