2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2755237 4-Aug-2021 19:19

Boltigzone:

When our borders open up I think it will be a disaster because our current vaccines are designed for the earlier strain of Covid not Delta. Since the start of this year I have been watching what's been happening in Israel. Most of their population is vaccinated and yet Delta is still spreading, restrictions are starting to come back and now they have started giving a 3rd booster jab because the protection after the second jap dies off after about 6 months. A short while ago I remember Benjamin Netanyahu saying that he was in discussion with the CEO of Pfizer regarding a updated vaccine to combat the Delta strain, there was a debate in Israel as to weather or not to give a 3rd booster shot or wait for the new Pfizer vaccine, they choose to start 3rd booster shots while they wait because its better nothing.

Everyone in NZ who has been vaccinated or about to get vaccinated in the near future will have to get a 3rd booster shot when the borders open because the protection dies off after about 6 months. Hopefully the 3rd booster shot will be the updated Pfizer vaccine to combat the Delta strain. I won't be getting my Jab until the border opens, it will be pointless getting a Jab now.

In the long term NZ would probably be better off keeping the border shut while at the same build proper MIQ facility buildings, that would also allow for increased MIQ capacity so more people can fly in. The reason why I think the border should stay shut is because even if we manage to have everyone vaccinated with the new Pfizer vaccine a new variant will arise down the track and then there will be a mad rush to acquire a new vaccine to combat the latest variant, and we might find ourselves in a situation where we have an uncontrollable outbreak.

after reading this today https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/australias-covid-plan-could-see-lockdowns-even-after-vaccination-targets-met/news-story/97d85fe58e6b00ca27bb0b723c372eb4 experts say Ausi will probably be having lockdowns for several years due to new variants. Do we really want to have lockdowns like Ausi for years ? Or shell we keep the border shut and build MIQ facilities ?

There's going to be a big outbreak in NZ sooner or later. Nowhere has been successful in avoiding that, even ion countries like Taiwan and Singapore with more draconian population controls.

If you are not vaccinated you are a sitting duck and certainly a vector to multiply an outbreak.

Boltigzone

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#2755239 4-Aug-2021 19:24

Oblivian: 64-96% against delta is not 'doesn't work against delta'

It was never going to stop spread dead. But stop you being if you contract it. And that appears to be working against those who are.

down to 64% is a significant drop, even tho the vaccine still prevents serious illness, it doesn't always prevent mild - moderate symptoms, there is thousands of people in this category putting a strain on the health system seeking medical assistance which is why Israel is starting to put back in place restrictions to control the delta spread.

Boltigzone

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#2755242 4-Aug-2021 19:26

Fred99:

And your lack of comprehension of that fact means you could become a killer -

why is it that you and others still think that only the unvaccinated are the ones spreading the virus ? Its make no difference if you are vaccinated or not the Delta strain still spreads

Fred99

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#2755244 4-Aug-2021 19:31

Boltigzone:

Fred99:

And your lack of comprehension of that fact means you could become a killer -

why is it that you and others still think that only the unvaccinated are the ones spreading the virus ? Its make no difference if you are vaccinated or not the Delta strain still spreads

That's a lie.

Fred99

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#2755246 4-Aug-2021 19:35

Rikkitic:

You can be right and you can be correct. Being right is what you said. Being correct might be adopting a slightly less evangelical tone and calmly explaining in neutral terms why starting vaccination immediately might be advisable. Why keep grinding people with mistaken ideas into the mud? You don't need that kind of affirmation.

See post just above this.

New member - 5 posts - same stupid dangerous crap.

I don't want to see GZ brigaded by antivaxxers. YMMV.

Boltigzone

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#2755249 4-Aug-2021 19:40

Fred99:

That's a lie.

no it isn't those who are vaccinated and have the delta are still spreaders just like the unvaccinated according to the recent cdc report

edit and I am not a anti vaxxer I most certainly will be getting vaccinated its just a matter of when, the reason for the multiple posts is because the forum won't let me do multiple quotes in one single post so I have to address every ones comments in a separate post.

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Fred99

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#2755264 4-Aug-2021 20:19

Boltigzone:

Fred99:

That's a lie.

no it isn't those who are vaccinated and have the delta are still spreaders just like the unvaccinated according to the recent cdc report

edit and I am not a anti vaxxer I most certainly will be getting vaccinated its just a matter of when, the reason for the multiple posts is because the forum won't let me do multiple quotes in one single post so I have to address every ones comments in a separate post.

That was a paper about a specific outbreak with non-representative population sample, and anyway it did NOT state what you suggest.

I discussed it here: https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=161&topicid=265423&page_no=1483#2752846

However, of course it's become one of the conspiracy theories embraced by anti-vaxxers.

Vaccinated people can get infected and can spread diseases that they're vaccinated against. No secret - nobody (knowledgeable) ever claimed they couldn't.

Two shots of the Pfizer vaccination provide 79% protection against asymptomatic infection, 83% protection against symptomatic protection, 96% protection against hospitalisation.

If you're truly not an anti-vaxxer then go do what you should for yourself and others - go get your shots.

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#2755269 4-Aug-2021 20:33

Boltigzone:

no it isn't those who are vaccinated and have the delta are still spreaders just like the unvaccinated according to the recent cdc report

slight misread :)

"Experts say that vaccination makes it less likely that you'll catch Covid-19 in the first place -- but for those who do, this data suggests they could have a similar tendency to spread it as unvaccinated folks."

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/07/30/health/breakthrough-infection-masks-cdc-provincetown-study/index.html

Fred99

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#2755270 4-Aug-2021 20:33

The concept that vaccination will not stop Delta transmission - hence vaccination isn't an urgent measure (or in some cases people are saying it's useless) - needs to be nailed.

It goes against every action being undertaken by authorities guided by experts in developed countries acting on "best advice" from the most qualified experts on the planet.

Indisputable fact. End of story.

Rikkitic

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#2755271 4-Aug-2021 20:34

Fred99:

Rikkitic:

You can be right and you can be correct. Being right is what you said. Being correct might be adopting a slightly less evangelical tone and calmly explaining in neutral terms why starting vaccination immediately might be advisable. Why keep grinding people with mistaken ideas into the mud? You don't need that kind of affirmation.

See post just above this.

New member - 5 posts - same stupid dangerous crap.

I don't want to see GZ brigaded by antivaxxers. YMMV.

Some with vaccine hesitation may be reading this thread. You are probably more likely to persuade them if you don't keep calling them killers.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

tdgeek

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#2755274 4-Aug-2021 20:44

I have to agree with Fred. Covid, specifically Delta is serious. Its way more serious than Alpha ever was. If a poster read this thread they should be very well educated, every page literally has detailed data. That doesn't seem enough, clearly. A stern attitude is warranted. Spread caused by laggards will effect many others, thats the concern. Others directly who catch Covid avoidably, let alone everyone back in lockdown every other week, which given the transmissibility is likely

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Fred99

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#2755276 4-Aug-2021 20:47

Batman:

slight misread :)

"Experts say that vaccination makes it less likely that you'll catch Covid-19 in the first place -- but for those who do, this data suggests they could have a similar tendency to spread it as unvaccinated folks."

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/07/30/health/breakthrough-infection-masks-cdc-provincetown-study/index.html

Even more problems.

Viral load (ie by PCR cycles from a swab) is probably a very poor proxy for how infectious a person is, and viral load before your immune response nails it probably depends on the load you were initially exposed to. A hint as to how that night have been very high was given in the post I linked to about how non-representative that "case study" probably was.

Anyway number of cases they had compared to the number of people partying together was no surprise.

New York Times :

On the weekend of July 4, it was also crowded. Around 60,000 people had jammed into a narrow spit of land, where many congregated, maskless, on sweaty dance floors and at house parties.

965 cases out of 60,000, only 7 hospitalised, nobody died.

Tell me that vaccines don't work (directed at Boltigzone - not Batman)

Oblivian

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#2755277 4-Aug-2021 20:48

Turns out I was a record statistic :) 1 of 42,000 done in a single day yesterday.

Fred99

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#2755282 4-Aug-2021 20:55

Rikkitic:

Some with vaccine hesitation may be reading this thread. You are probably more likely to persuade them if you don't keep calling them killers.

But that's actually what they are. Along with "freedumb warriors".

You want to have a rational discussion with people full of dumb ideologies garnered from social media and extremists pose a very real deadly threat to you and your loved ones - when they won't believe and/or will dispute every fact you throw at them?

I don't.

Rikkitic

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#2755286 4-Aug-2021 21:06

Fred99:

Rikkitic:

Some with vaccine hesitation may be reading this thread. You are probably more likely to persuade them if you don't keep calling them killers.

But that's actually what they are. Along with "freedumb warriors".

You want to have a rational discussion with people posing a deadly threat when they won't believe or will dispute every fact you throw at them?

I don't.

I saw an interview with a Covid doctor on CNN the other night in which she made the point that she had actually successfully persuaded people by listening to their arguments and patiently answering questions and correcting wrong information. Your approach does not have even that possibility.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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