2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2761855 17-Aug-2021 22:14

sbiddle:

It's much like the mask issue. Old old L4 guidelines all got rescinded months ago.. And it basically appears nothing is ready to replace these right now. Some will require cabinet approval and health orders before they can come into place,.

Which I’m quite surprised and frustrated about. I am not familiar with the ins and outs of this, and I would hazard a guess you possibly can’t have an order in place that gets triggered by something (eg write the order, make it legal, and have it automatically triggered by a case type thing).

But I really would have thought this stuff would be drafted and ready to go, so a minimum of box ticking needs to occur before it can go live.

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#2761857 17-Aug-2021 22:17

What’s the likelyhood that the Virus came from the Canadian Frigate that departed Devonport 10th Aug. They came from the Talisman Sabre exercise and had been at sea for 17 days before their arrival here, all crew have been vaccinated. I think had 10 days of R&R.

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#2761858 17-Aug-2021 22:18

Oblivian:

ezbee:

Thank goodness this latest case got tested, and was scanning everywhere.

Unfortunately despite these efforts. By the tracing appears to have also been like most and not taken the 'stay at home and get tested if sick' as seriously as it needed to be.

Pretty hard to convince many people to go and be tested when there is no Covid and we believe we've won.

With the number of people in NZ right now with colds and sniffles you would have had testing centres literally working overtime if everybody who had a sniffle or ILI symptoms went for a test.

I suspect for the next few years at least popping along for a Covid test will be the new norm for anybody who has a sniffle, but that's not the case right now.

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#2761861 17-Aug-2021 22:23

Divhon88: What’s the likelyhood that the Virus came from the Canadian Frigate that departed Devonport 10th Aug. They came from the Talisman Sabre exercise and had been at sea for 17 days before their arrival here, all crew have been vaccinated. I think had 10 days of R&R.

Small chance. Chance all the same

But while the 250 crew members will be able to skip the line, they won’t be let ashore before each one of them returns a negative Covid-19 test and health officials verify crew have been symptom-free for a fortnight.

In a statement, the New Zealand Defence Force said the visit would be in “strict” compliance with the border order.

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#2761866 17-Aug-2021 22:34

sbiddle:

...

I suspect for the next few years at least popping along for a Covid test will be the new norm for anybody who has a sniffle, but that's not the case right now.

By then hopefully a reliable and quick saliva test.

It might also help if the testing also included for other viruses etc, to make it more useful for both tracking different viruses and for personal diagnosis & treatment

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#2761867 17-Aug-2021 22:36

antonknee:

sbiddle:

It's much like the mask issue. Old old L4 guidelines all got rescinded months ago.. And it basically appears nothing is ready to replace these right now. Some will require cabinet approval and health orders before they can come into place,.

Which I’m quite surprised and frustrated about. I am not familiar with the ins and outs of this, and I would hazard a guess you possibly can’t have an order in place that gets triggered by something (eg write the order, make it legal, and have it automatically triggered by a case type thing).

But I really would have thought this stuff would be drafted and ready to go, so a minimum of box ticking needs to occur before it can go live.

This just gets worse. There isn't even any information for businesses for L4 - did nobody from MBIE or AoG think we'd have L4 again? Everything relating to the old L4 was pulled - why were replacements not ready to go live?

Right now there appears to be no real source of information for essential businesses and things like health orders for mandatory mask wearing might happen tomorrow. Did nobody listen to the warnings last week that we should be ready for a lockdown?!

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#2761870 17-Aug-2021 22:38

Geektastic:

[quote Scott3:

[quote HelloThere:

I can't believe how busy the liquor shops were. Even busier than the supermarket.

...

It's rational for them to be more busy than the supermarkets. Outside of trusts regions, they aren't allowed to trade in level 4.

So if you like booze other than beer & wine, it is your last chance to get it for what could potentially be 4+ weeks. Not healthy, but I assume there is a chunk of the population that views a level 4 lock-down as an opportunity to drink a lot of alcohol...

quote]

I have always wondered why supermarkets here do not sell spirits. They do in Europe. I can't really see the point of the restriction - either you sell alcohol or you do not.

from friend's first hand video

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#2761872 17-Aug-2021 22:45

frankv:

The difference is that you don't have to have a needle stuck into you to get a drivers license. Compelling someone to have medical treatment is normally done on a case by case basis, via court orders, and usually in the context of mental health where the patient can't make the right decision. It's a big step for the state to force someone of sound mind to do anything, let alone the entire population. And there's a tiny but non-zero risk of death or disability.

And, as I said, in many cities there is *no* option but to use public transport. Many people don't own cars. So mandating vaccinations for public transport users is effectively mandating injections for *everyone* in a large city.

Again, I'm not anti-vax. I've had both my jabs. I think it's a good idea for everyone to get vaccinated, especially if they're in close proximity to others. I'm just pointing out that there's a substantial erosion of human rights at stake.

Yes I agree it is a big step to force someone to have a vaccination. I'd also say my rights or anyone else's rights finish when they start impacting another person's rights. If by not being vaccinated you increase the risk to others around you then your right not to be vaccinated creates a problem.

If you dont wish to be vaccinated then I think it is reasonable that you don't share public transport. Walk or ride a bike if you don't have a car. If you don’t want to walk or bike then have the jab.

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#2761875 17-Aug-2021 23:34

I was very surprised by the call to pause vaccinations for 48 hours.

The vaccination center I went to (mt wellington) was very much set up as though we were at a higher alert level than level 1. Distanced queues, seating, masks issued to everybody etc.

Realistically any vaccination in this time period isn't going to have a material positive impact on the effectiveness of the lockdown, but I thought we would keep going with it as a backup incase the lockdown failed (always a possibility...) and we end up in a NSW style saga.

Perhaps the government wants to pull all the nurses / resources from their larger vaccination centers and re-deploy them to doing swabs for the next two days. That is something I would support.

antonknee

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#2761876 17-Aug-2021 23:39

sbiddle:

This just gets worse. There isn't even any information for businesses for L4 - did nobody from MBIE or AoG think we'd have L4 again? Everything relating to the old L4 was pulled - why were replacements not ready to go live?

Right now there appears to be no real source of information for essential businesses and things like health orders for mandatory mask wearing might happen tomorrow. Did nobody listen to the warnings last week that we should be ready for a lockdown?!

Arguably the reality is worse (more farcical perhaps) because it is actually there - just no link to it from that menu. If you go to Business and Money and then Businesses there is a link to: https://covid19.govt.nz/business-and-money/businesses/doing-business-at-alert-level-4/

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#2761877 17-Aug-2021 23:59

antonknee:
sbiddle:

This just gets worse. There isn't even any information for businesses for L4 - did nobody from MBIE or AoG think we'd have L4 again? Everything relating to the old L4 was pulled - why were replacements not ready to go live?

Right now there appears to be no real source of information for essential businesses and things like health orders for mandatory mask wearing might happen tomorrow. Did nobody listen to the warnings last week that we should be ready for a lockdown?!

Arguably the reality is worse (more farcical perhaps) because it is actually there - just no link to it from that menu. If you go to Business and Money and then Businesses there is a link to: https://covid19.govt.nz/business-and-money/businesses/doing-business-at-alert-level-4/

So just the exact same rules them... what a shock!

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mattwnz

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#2761878 18-Aug-2021 00:06

Scott3:

I was very surprised by the call to pause vaccinations for 48 hours.

The vaccination center I went to (mt wellington) was very much set up as though we were at a higher alert level than level 1. Distanced queues, seating, masks issued to everybody etc.

Realistically any vaccination in this time period isn't going to have a material positive impact on the effectiveness of the lockdown, but I thought we would keep going with it as a backup incase the lockdown failed (always a possibility...) and we end up in a NSW style saga.

Perhaps the government wants to pull all the nurses / resources from their larger vaccination centers and re-deploy them to doing swabs for the next two days. That is something I would support.

IMO they should have been doing it out of cars as a drive thru from the start, incase this sort of thing occurred.

mattwnz

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#2761879 18-Aug-2021 00:10

Technofreak:

frankv:

The difference is that you don't have to have a needle stuck into you to get a drivers license. Compelling someone to have medical treatment is normally done on a case by case basis, via court orders, and usually in the context of mental health where the patient can't make the right decision. It's a big step for the state to force someone of sound mind to do anything, let alone the entire population. And there's a tiny but non-zero risk of death or disability.

And, as I said, in many cities there is *no* option but to use public transport. Many people don't own cars. So mandating vaccinations for public transport users is effectively mandating injections for *everyone* in a large city.

Again, I'm not anti-vax. I've had both my jabs. I think it's a good idea for everyone to get vaccinated, especially if they're in close proximity to others. I'm just pointing out that there's a substantial erosion of human rights at stake.

Yes I agree it is a big step to force someone to have a vaccination. I'd also say my rights or anyone else's rights finish when they start impacting another person's rights. If by not being vaccinated you increase the risk to others around you then your right not to be vaccinated creates a problem.

If you dont wish to be vaccinated then I think it is reasonable that you don't share public transport. Walk or ride a bike if you don't have a car. If you don’t want to walk or bike then have the jab.

Usually the reasons that people don't want to get vaccinated at selfish, and that they are not going to be affected by it, but not thinking of others that could be affected. Obviously some people can't for health reasons, but IMO everyone else needs to be, as this is a pandemic situation. NZ doesn't have the health system to cope with covid being in the community. Even when we do reopen, there are going to be covid cases needing hospital treatment, which is why we are going to need more hospital space and ICU beds no matter what. Unless the vaccinations are going to improve. I have heard of a nasal spray being developed which may be a game-changer.

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#2761880 18-Aug-2021 00:11

mattwnz:
Scott3:

I was very surprised by the call to pause vaccinations for 48 hours.

The vaccination center I went to (mt wellington) was very much set up as though we were at a higher alert level than level 1. Distanced queues, seating, masks issued to everybody etc.

Realistically any vaccination in this time period isn't going to have a material positive impact on the effectiveness of the lockdown, but I thought we would keep going with it as a backup incase the lockdown failed (always a possibility...) and we end up in a NSW style saga.

Perhaps the government wants to pull all the nurses / resources from their larger vaccination centers and re-deploy them to doing swabs for the next two days. That is something I would support.

IMO they should have been doing it out of cars as a drive thru from the start, incase this sort of thing occurred.

It's not very efficient. It requires a lot more space and it's much harder to supervise.

DS248

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#2761881 18-Aug-2021 00:59

Briefly changing the subject!

Israel has now given 3rd doses to well over 60% of people 70 and older, and over 50% of the 60-69 age group (& now increasingly giving 3rd doses to the 50-59 group).

Will be interesting to see how this impacts the numbers of seriously ill patients and deaths, the former now approaching the Sep-Oct 20 peak (and ~half the Jan 21 peak).

Daily case numbers now exceed all but those during the Jan-early Feb 21 peak. On present trends even that could well be exceeded soon (8646+new cases yesterday, which is the 9th largest daily total since the start of the pandemic).

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