2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2777104 12-Sep-2021 18:03

GV27:

Geektastic:

I'd give them 5 years no parole as an example.

I know it's not a particularly smart way to run a justice system but I'd imagine you'd get 100% support of locking them up at least until Auckland is back down to L2, when inter-regional travel is actually permitted.

It is smart. When there EQ's occurred in ChCh and few laggards stole gas bottles. Arrested, placed in custody until Rangiora had time to hear the case, a couple of months later I recall

mattwnz

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#2777105 12-Sep-2021 18:04

tdgeek:

mattwnz:

Wouldn't it have been picking up cases in MIQ anyway. IMO this as always a flaw. They reckon it leaked from MIQ about 5 days before it was picked up.

One of the problems seems to be that contact tracing is too slow, not that these unknown cases aren't linked to existing the clusters. We have to remember that some people have bad memories. There will be flouters etc too. It is the main reason we couldn't trust people to self isolate at home, and required returning travelers to go into MIQ, as too many didn't and contributed to the first outbreak.

MIQ is not a flaw.

You misunderstood. The sewage from most MIQs appear to be going into the main sewage. Rather than going into septic tanks which could have been installed, so that waste doesn't contaminate the wastewater testing. The whole point of sewage testing should be for picking it up in the community so there aren't any hidden cases, rather than it being contaminated by cases in MIQ. This was also the problem Christchurch had, which potentially slowed down the SI moving down a level, as they didn't know 100% if the positive tests were from MIQ or from the community. This is a flaw. A purpose built facility could be isolated by using spetic tanks. I would also think they could have portable septic tanks installed on MIQ hotels.

tdgeek

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#2777107 12-Sep-2021 18:08

sbiddle:

And now for the multi word reply. There is risk involved - I'm not the person saying there is risk involved, statistics are showing that. Experts are saying that.

There are countries not currently vaccinating teenagers because of concerns about the risk, the one area of concern for the CDC when it comes to mRNA approval for 5-11yr olds has been to establish whether the risks in the 5-11yr age bracket are similar, and whether there is any difference in the risk profile for males vs females like lots of data is showing for teenagers.

Are there risks for me? For the elderly? Do we vaccinate everyone or do we leave out swathes of at risk people? If we eat to be technically accurate we may choose not to vaccinate quite a large % of the population to satisfy the risk element. But who then explains the deaths and the near ending lockdowns?

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#2777109 12-Sep-2021 18:10

Geektastic:

My idea of justice is somewhat medieval I'm afraid!

At times like this, medieval trumps moist bus tickets.

Fred99

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#2777111 12-Sep-2021 18:13

sbiddle:

And now for the multi word reply. There is risk involved - I'm not the person saying there is risk involved, statistics are showing that. Experts are saying that.

But far less risk than the risk of myocarditis from catching covid, and far far less than the overall risk from all the other complications from catching covid.

Ge0rge

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#2777114 12-Sep-2021 18:19

mattwnz:

You misunderstood. The sewage from most MIQs appear to be going into the main sewage. Rather than going into septic tanks which could have been installed, so that waste doesn't contaminate the wastewater testing. The whole point of sewage testing should be for picking it up in the community so there aren't any hidden cases, rather than it being contaminated by cases in MIQ. This was also the problem Christchurch had, which potentially slowed down the SI moving down a level, as they didn't know 100% if the positive tests were from MIQ or from the community. This is a flaw. A purpose built facility could be isolated by using spetic tanks. I would also think they could have portable septic tanks installed on MIQ hotels.

I think you may misunderstand just how much sewage a hotel with 3-400 people in it would generate on a daily basis. There is absolutely no way that you could retro-fit a CBD hotel with a septic system. Just where would it all go? Wellington, for instance, had a crack at this last year - albeit by mismanagement than design, however. It was flowing down the streets...

As for the waste water testing, there are 17 sites that samples are taken from across Auckland. It is currently being (not unexpectedly) detected at four sites.

Your statement about Christchurch doesn't have a single thread of evidence to back it up, and couldn't be further from the truth.

tdgeek

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#2777115 12-Sep-2021 18:23

Ge0rge:

I think you may misunderstand just how much sewage a hotel with 3-400 people in it would generate on a daily basis. There is absolutely no way that you could retro-fit a CBD hotel with a septic system. Just where would it all go? Wellington, for instance, had a crack at this last year - albeit by mismanagement than design, however. It was flowing down the streets...

As for the waste water testing, there are 17 sites that samples are taken from across Auckland. It is currently being (not unexpectedly) detected at four sites.

Your statement about Christchurch doesn't have a single thread of evidence to back it up, and couldn't be further from the truth.

Yes, Chch was not a flaw. Take a general wastewater sample and bang we have Covid. We have MIQ here, so what they then did, was test upstream, no Covid, so it all makes sense.

Im finding this thread so negative. Its not Maths 101, 2+2 =4, but some here seem to need that. You do the best that you can, hope for the best, Covid and Delta dont mean there is an easy formula. If there was, we would have no issue globally.

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mattwnz

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#2777119 12-Sep-2021 18:44

Ge0rge:

Your statement about Christchurch doesn't have a single thread of evidence to back it up, and couldn't be further from the truth.

That is not correct. That was one of the justifications the government used for not moving the SI down a few days earlier, as they said they would need some extra days to get tests back around other waste water test spots around Christchurch, and they had been waiting for the results to come in. They wanted to be sure that there weren't any cases in the community, as there were known cases in MIQ and they wanted to be sure that the positive wastewater results in Chch were those.

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#2777120 12-Sep-2021 18:46

Batman: Essential worker flies out of Akl to holiday home

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300404801/covid19-live-auckland-couple-crossed-border-and-flew-to-wanaka-for-holiday-20-new-community-delta-cases-in-auckland

The audacity to flunk the rules.

Absolute muppets. Glad they got caught.

Ramblings from a mysterious lady who's into tech. Warning I may often create zingers.

mattwnz

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#2777121 12-Sep-2021 18:48

MaxineN:

Batman: Essential worker flies out of Akl to holiday home

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300404801/covid19-live-auckland-couple-crossed-border-and-flew-to-wanaka-for-holiday-20-new-community-delta-cases-in-auckland

The audacity to flunk the rules.

Absolute muppets. Glad they got caught.

But how many people haven't been caught? A $4k fine or 6 months in jail are the punishments mentioned on the news.

MaxineN

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#2777122 12-Sep-2021 18:49

mattwnz:

But how many people haven't been caught? A $4k fine or 6 months in jail are the punishments mentioned on the news.

🤷‍♀️

Your guess is as good as mine we don't know.

Ramblings from a mysterious lady who's into tech. Warning I may often create zingers.

mattwnz

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#2777124 12-Sep-2021 19:17

tdgeek:

Ge0rge:

I think you may misunderstand just how much sewage a hotel with 3-400 people in it would generate on a daily basis. There is absolutely no way that you could retro-fit a CBD hotel with a septic system. Just where would it all go? Wellington, for instance, had a crack at this last year - albeit by mismanagement than design, however. It was flowing down the streets...

As for the waste water testing, there are 17 sites that samples are taken from across Auckland. It is currently being (not unexpectedly) detected at four sites.

Your statement about Christchurch doesn't have a single thread of evidence to back it up, and couldn't be further from the truth.

We have MIQ here, so what they then did, was test upstream, no Covid,

Yes, and there was a delay of several days when they had to do the upstream tests.

Reanalyse

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#2777138 12-Sep-2021 20:48

Ge0rge:

mattwnz:

You misunderstood. The sewage from most MIQs appear to be going into the main sewage. Rather than going into septic tanks which could have been installed, so that waste doesn't contaminate the wastewater testing. The whole point of sewage testing should be for picking it up in the community so there aren't any hidden cases, rather than it being contaminated by cases in MIQ. This was also the problem Christchurch had, which potentially slowed down the SI moving down a level, as they didn't know 100% if the positive tests were from MIQ or from the community. This is a flaw. A purpose built facility could be isolated by using spetic tanks. I would also think they could have portable septic tanks installed on MIQ hotels.

I think you may misunderstand just how much sewage a hotel with 3-400 people in it would generate on a daily basis. There is absolutely no way that you could retro-fit a CBD hotel with a septic system. Just where would it all go? Wellington, for instance, had a crack at this last year - albeit by mismanagement than design, however. It was flowing down the streets...

As for the waste water testing, there are 17 sites that samples are taken from across Auckland. It is currently being (not unexpectedly) detected at four sites.

Your statement about Christchurch doesn't have a single thread of evidence to back it up, and couldn't be further from the truth.

Do you know the current sites where detected, I wish they would not hide this information, or make it easier to find.

freitasm

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#2777160 12-Sep-2021 22:06

mattwnz:

But how many people haven't been caught? A $4k fine or 6 months in jail are the punishments mentioned on the news.

And they should get the maximum penalty allowed. As an example.

tdgeek

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#2777180 13-Sep-2021 07:16

mattwnz:

You misunderstood. The sewage from most MIQs appear to be going into the main sewage. Rather than going into septic tanks which could have been installed, so that waste doesn't contaminate the wastewater testing. The whole point of sewage testing should be for picking it up in the community so there aren't any hidden cases, rather than it being contaminated by cases in MIQ. This was also the problem Christchurch had, which potentially slowed down the SI moving down a level, as they didn't know 100% if the positive tests were from MIQ or from the community. This is a flaw. A purpose built facility could be isolated by using spetic tanks. I would also think they could have portable septic tanks installed on MIQ hotels.

More hindsight. ChCh wasn't delayed at all, they had to sit out the returning cases from Auckland when the lockdown started. And if Chch was potentially slowed down levels why did everywhere outside of AKL move down at the same time? Why didnt MoH build purpose built facilities all over NZ in Jan 2020? You keep seeking perfection using hindsight as the basis

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