2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2778820 15-Sep-2021 15:41

Jas777:

NZ has a couple of issues that are a make a comparison with Denmark not so good. We have much higher levels of Obesity and Heart Disease which Covid loves. This is a reason why the UK has more deaths than any other country in Europe as they are fatter and why Scotland has the highest numbers in the UK as Heart Disease there is higher than anywhere else.

When we do open up our rates of death are going to be higher. The problem is that with the current PC world you can't recommend measures which will make people feel bad.

With you right up to the last sentence, and generally speaking I agree. However, I think it's simplistic to put the UK's higher numbers down to the incidences of just obesity and heart disease. There are many other things that are different between the UK and the rest of Europe, especially in the their public health response to covid which I would expect to be a significant factor.

But that last sentence is too opaque for me. Are you saying that the government want to open the borders but can't because the government is PC and doesn't want to mention extra deaths and make people feel bad? Rather than because causing extra deaths *is* bad? The government, after all, has taken measures like lockdowns which do make people feel bad.

Or are you saying that you want to open the borders but can't say so because the world is PC and doesn't want any mention of accepting extra deaths?

wellygary

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#2778823 15-Sep-2021 15:48

tdgeek:

So far 35.2 percent of eligible Kiwis (12-plus) have had two doses of the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine, and 68.8 percent at least one.

Pretty good. The one jabbers will be booked in anytime from next week for the second jab to a few weeks, so in a few weeks, based only on the data today, 68.8% of 12+ would be full vaccinated. Add to that the newbies getting their first , so probably nicely over 70% in 3 to 6 weeks.

The current number (actual people) of those fully vaccinated is equivalent to the number with one dose on 12/8..

. so its about a one month lag.... but the transition to 6 weeks might push this out a bit.

Agree that by the end of October we should be at least 70% fully vaxed with potentially another ~10% on top waiting for the second dose.

We have pretty much sopped up all the "easys" so daily dose rates are probably going to start to taper off soonl... but at election time politicians door knock pretty much every house in the country, surely it cant be that hard for the MoH to do the same thing...

+ given they are matching vaccines to NHIs they should know where the unvaxed are living :)

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#2778898 15-Sep-2021 16:39

frankv:

Or are you saying that you want to open the borders but can't say so because the world is PC and doesn't want any mention of accepting extra deaths?

I meaning that if we do open the borders then people with certain conditions need to know they will have to be more restrictive in what they do. If you weigh 120 kilos and are unfit then being in large gatherings may be bad for you

Oblivian

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#2778917 15-Sep-2021 17:15

Someone mentioned close contact sports previously where it appeared for the time being the safest of logic should have been applied to ensure being within the rules due lack of clarity.

Clarity has now been provided to elaborate/distinguish from where they take place.

Close contact sports

At Alert Level 2, you can participate in close-contact sports — for example, boxing, wrestling or martial arts. The person organising the activity needs to make sure:

there are no more than 50 people if the sport is being played indoors
there are no more than 100 people if the sport is being played outdoors
they keep a record of all the people participating and spectating.

If you are playing a close contact sport, you may want to modify activities or exercises to limit physical contact. Try to keep 2 metres away from others when you are not participating in the sport or activity.

Try not to share equipment — for example boxing gloves, hit pats, punching bags. If you do need to share equipment, wash or sanitise it before and after you use it.

You do not need to wear a face covering when playing sport. We encourage instructors and trainers to wear one, if possible.

Spaces have also been defined separately as theres the 50/100 blend. Even though their URL is broken

https://covid19.govt.nz/activities/events-and-entertainment/?stage=Stage#defined-spaces = access denied. Trim it and you find the right page anchor. But not made for mortals to understand.. they look the same to me?!?!

Indoor defined spaces
An indoor space is a single space if there are walls that substantially divide that space from other spaces. The walls can be permanent or temporary — but should not allow direct airflow between the defined spaces.

Outdoor defined spaces
An outdoor space is a single space if there:

are walls that substantially divide that space from other spaces — the walls can be permanent or temporary, or

is at least 2 metres between all people in that space and any other people outside that space.

Batman

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#2778920 15-Sep-2021 17:21

I find this rule a bit silly. You can have 50 people whether in a gym the size of a house or a big complex with 30 basketball courts but no walls separating.

Handle9

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#2778922 15-Sep-2021 17:22

Looking at the latest stats published on Newsroom there appears to be a fairly significant problem with getting vaccine uptake in group 3. Uptake is excellent in all other groups but having very low uptake in the vulnerable population is a serious concern.

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tdgeek

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#2778925 15-Sep-2021 17:28

Jas777:

NZ has a couple of issues that are a make a comparison with Denmark not so good. We have much higher levels of Obesity and Heart Disease which Covid loves. This is a reason why the UK has more deaths than any other country in Europe as they are fatter and why Scotland has the highest numbers in the UK as Heart Disease there is higher than anywhere else.

When we do open up our rates of death are going to be higher. The problem is that with the current PC world you can't recommend measures which will make people feel bad.

Fair enough, but obesity etc is here and will be here, irregardless of Covid. From what Ive read, opening up causes infections and spread but the hospitalisation is heavily weighted to the unvaccinated.

tdgeek

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#2778926 15-Sep-2021 17:34

wellygary:

The current number (actual people) of those fully vaccinated is equivalent to the number with one dose on 12/8..

. so its about a one month lag.... but the transition to 6 weeks might push this out a bit.

Agree that by the end of October we should be at least 70% fully vaxed with potentially another ~10% on top waiting for the second dose.

We have pretty much sopped up all the "easys" so daily dose rates are probably going to start to taper off soonl... but at election time politicians door knock pretty much every house in the country, surely it cant be that hard for the MoH to do the same thing...

+ given they are matching vaccines to NHIs they should know where the unvaxed are living :)

What I am expecting, slash hoping, is that while the vax conspiracy cant be helped, when we get to a point when all the news is we are at a high vax level, we will be re opening so GET VAXXED if you want Covid to be like the flu. I reckon that will soak up a lot of the uninformed. So, if we get to 70+ % and we soak up many uninformed (News, Youtube ads, OD ads, TV ads etc) we may well go a good bit higher

tdgeek

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#2778927 15-Sep-2021 17:35

Jas777:

If you weigh 120 kilos and are unfit then being in large gatherings may be bad for you

Agree, but its already bad for you, Covid or not

Batman

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#2778930 15-Sep-2021 17:36

Handle9:
Looking at the latest stats published on Newsroom there appears to be a fairly significant problem with getting vaccine uptake in group 3. Uptake is excellent in all other groups but having very low uptake in the vulnerable population is a serious concern.

I had thought that there is a big group of NZers who are not going to get the vaccine. I think if the country gets 70% we're probably doing well, be lucky to get anywhere near 80%, I don't think there any chance of getting 90%.

tdgeek

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#2778935 15-Sep-2021 17:46

Batman:

I had thought that there is a big group of NZers who are not going to get the vaccine. I think if the country gets 70% we're probably doing well, be lucky to get anywhere near 80%, I don't think there any chance of getting 90%.

So far 35.2 percent of eligible Kiwis (12-plus) have had two doses of the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine, and 68.8 percent at least one.

As 68.8% have one jab, its not a stretch that they will get the second, = 68.8%

Add in those that are uninformed when the latest news is that we will open up on xx/xx/2022 get vaccinated if you want it to be like the flu (for most)

Or just be negative.

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tdgeek

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#2778936 15-Sep-2021 17:48

And add in Handle9's Group 3 concern, tidy them up, even more

Handle9

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#2778940 15-Sep-2021 17:52

tdgeek:

Batman:

I had thought that there is a big group of NZers who are not going to get the vaccine. I think if the country gets 70% we're probably doing well, be lucky to get anywhere near 80%, I don't think there any chance of getting 90%.

So far 35.2 percent of eligible Kiwis (12-plus) have had two doses of the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine, and 68.8 percent at least one.

As 68.8% have one jab, its not a stretch that they will get the second, = 68.8%

Add in those that are uninformed when the latest news is that we will open up on xx/xx/2022 get vaccinated if you want it to be like the flu (for most)

Or just be negative.

The total population stats are around 58% with either one or two doses with a further ~6% booked. There's a fair way to go to get to 80%

Oblivian

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#2779017 15-Sep-2021 19:22

Yes, this is a rough situation given they weren't advised

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-woman-shocked-to-learn-covid-19-vaccination-centre-closed/QIU6JZUDC7GZQJA62EMT4BBFGI/

But... it does say her number wasn't on file. And despite

"I didn't just walk up somewhere, I followed what they said to do, I felt like I was being a rule follower and I almost felt like I was being punished for it," she said."

This is a case of what I touched previously. News and information is dynamic. People aren't being proactive like has been asked in standups. And as we found on the other thread. Users here were - were rebooked at a further away location, made use of the walk ins instead.

Fred99

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#2779020 15-Sep-2021 19:30

Handle9:

The total population stats are around 58% with either one or two doses with a further ~6% booked. There's a fair way to go to get to 80%

Total eligible population is 70% jabbed at least once, 78% jabbed or booked.

It matters to get that fact right. 58% almost earns a Texas one star rating. However 78% is not close enough to what's needed. How well the next phase works - to get antivaxxers to change their minds - will be critical to reopening.

There's no way that <12YO jabs will be approved until safety data is reviewed by Medsafe, that probably only after FDA issues at least an EUA. I expect uptake may be quite high, people tend to look after their kids, we manage (IIRC) >90% with MMR, despite the loonies being active for a long time.

(It's possible that the <12YO dose may be a single shot, immune response is stronger, one shot may do the trick with less risk of side effects).

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