Vaccine Passport is the next big story. Although it shouldn't be, I cannot see any issues. 

tdgeek:

 

Vaccine Passport is the next big story. Although it shouldn't be, I cannot see any issues. 

 

There should be public consultation before this even gets close to passed into law. There needs to be strict rules governing its use and independent oversight. To require folks in Aotearoa to carry "papers" in their daily lives is a a huge step and a huge bite into our civil liberties and every New Zealander should be very concerned and its a mine field of issues.

MikeB4:

 

tdgeek:

 

Vaccine Passport is the next big story. Although it shouldn't be, I cannot see any issues. 

 

 

There should be public consultation before this even gets close to passed into law. There needs to be strict rules governing its use and independent oversight. To require folks in Aotearoa to carry "papers" in their daily lives is a a huge step and a huge bite into our civil liberties and every New Zealander should be very concerned and its a mine field of issues.

 

We already do that, if you wish to drive a vehicle you are legally bound to carry your driver licence. If you want to enter or leave the country you must carry a valid passport.

So if you want to have unlimited access to restaurants, bars, cinemas etc, in the future you may have to carry proof of vaccination. Except in this case if you don't have it you voluntarily give up some of those activities.

May only concern is that those who can't have it have some form of digital exemption as it's not their choice to be unvaccinated.

Not really the same league.

MikeB4:

 

There should be public consultation before this even gets close to passed into law. There needs to be strict rules governing its use and independent oversight. To require folks in Aotearoa to carry "papers" in their daily lives is a a huge step and a huge bite into our civil liberties and every New Zealander should be very concerned and its a mine field of issues.

 

The comment in the article I read was about the Govt knowing more information about us. Currently there is the IRD, Driver Licenses, Telco's that Police can have access to. Banks have a lot of data that I assume is accessible by the Police. We are supposed to carry our Drivers Licence with us when we drive. I imagine most of us carry Photo ID in some form as younger ions sometimes need that. A Vaccination Passport just shows that you are vaccinated, We often carry many "papers" with us now. Its about the health of all of us.

The other issue is discrimination against the unvaccinated. Employers could he held negligent if they hire unvaccinated workers as they are bound by law to keep their employees safe, but how can they do that when they hire unvaccinated employees?

But there are always lockdowns as another solution. 

Isn't mandatory scanning the same effect on peoples liberties?

If there will be "public consultation before this even gets close to passed into law." then just forget it, by the time its available we will have botton used to regular deaths and the odd lockdown, if we arent able to use this measure to prevent widespread outbreaks.

MikeB4:

 

There should be public consultation before {Vaccine Passports} even gets close to passed into law. There needs to be strict rules governing its use and independent oversight. To require folks in Aotearoa to carry "papers" in their daily lives is a a huge step and a huge bite into our civil liberties and every New Zealander should be very concerned and its a mine field of issues.

Getting some coverage on Stuff right now:

How vaccine passports could impact festivals, cafes, work and our freedom

 

"Festival organisers want a clear instruction from the Government about vaccine requirements, as it works to release a “vaccine passport” in time for summer.

 

The Ministry of Health and Customs are working on the Government’s vaccine passport, which will be able to confirm if the holder has been vaccinated. The tool was first floated to allow for international travel, but is likely to be used domestically as well.

 

Restaurant owners are also asking the Government to make vaccine passports available for their industry, with almost two in three saying they see this as a tool for safer and steadier trading."

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/news/300409140/how-vaccine-passports-could-impact-festivals-cafes-work-and-our-freedom

@tdgeek You need to think a lot more about this and look at the lessons that history provides us. You are verging on hyperbole. Remember once freedoms are ceded it takes a long, painful fight to retrieve them. This should not be brought based on current emotions and team of million hype. 

MikeB4:

 

Not really the same league.

 

As said a drivers licence to drive a weapon, same for firearms, Im not allowed to beat anyone up, or rob a bank. To carry a licence for the heath and safety of myself and us all is certainly in the same league, and with almost the population of NZ have died due to this pandemic, its a no brainer. Lockdowns and death are the other solution. Both of which remove us all from a huge swathe of activities.

PolicyGuy:

 

Getting some coverage on Stuff right now:
How vaccine passports could impact festivals, cafes, work and our freedom

 

"Festival organisers want a clear instruction from the Government about vaccine requirements, as it works to release a “vaccine passport” in time for summer.

 

The Ministry of Health and Customs are working on the Government’s vaccine passport, which will be able to confirm if the holder has been vaccinated. The tool was first floated to allow for international travel, but is likely to be used domestically as well.

 

Restaurant owners are also asking the Government to make vaccine passports available for their industry, with almost two in three saying they see this as a tool for safer and steadier trading."

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/news/300409140/how-vaccine-passports-could-impact-festivals-cafes-work-and-our-freedom

 

It'd be good to get some legislative clarity from the government on vaccination mandates and restriction of access by private businesses based on vaccination.

As far as I can tell vaccination wouldn't be a protected attribute under human rights legislation so a business could deny access to the unvaccinated. It is a massive can of worms and really should be clearly defined.

Similarly explicitly allowing (or denying) businesses to require vaccination would really help them. It can be done today in some businesses not covered by the health orders but it's unnecessarily complex. Simplifying it would make life much easier for everyone concerned.

Both topics are likely to be very very political though.

tdgeek:

 

MikeB4:

 

Not really the same league.

 

 

As said a drivers licence to drive a weapon, same for firearms, Im not allowed to beat anyone up, or rob a bank. To carry a licence for the heath and safety of myself and us all is certainly in the same league, and with almost the population of NZ have died due to this pandemic, its a no brainer. Lockdowns and death are the other solution. Both of which remove us all from a huge swathe of activities.

 

It's really not. I think it is necessary but it is a significant infringement on civil liberties. So are lockdowns and border controls.

Does anyone know how these vaccine passports have been implemented overseas? Is it something you put on your phone and, if so, is there some sort of offline alternative for those who can't use apps, etc?

alasta:

 

Does anyone know how these vaccine passports have been implemented overseas? Is it something you put on your phone and, if so, is there some sort of offline alternative for those who can't use apps, etc?

 

Here we have an app that has your vaccination and PCR records.

There is no paper alternative as you can not exist in the UAE without a linked mobile number. 

Handle9:

 

tdgeek:

 

As said a drivers licence to drive a weapon, same for firearms, Im not allowed to beat anyone up, or rob a bank. To carry a licence for the heath and safety of myself and us all is certainly in the same league, and with almost the population of NZ have died due to this pandemic, its a no brainer. Lockdowns and death are the other solution. Both of which remove us all from a huge swathe of activities.

 

 

It's really not. I think it is necessary but it is a significant infringement on civil liberties. So are lockdowns and border controls.

 

My meaning is that we already use licences to allow us to do certain things. Is a Butter Chicken more important than the health and welfare of our population. It's based I assume on health orders so is another tool we have to combat the pandemic.

MikeB4:

 

@tdgeek You need to think a lot more about this and look at the lessons that history provides us. You are verging on hyperbole. Remember once freedoms are ceded it takes a long, painful fight to retrieve them. This should not be brought based on current emotions and team of million hype. 

 

Hyperbole? Thats ridiculous. Same with emotion. Its basic math. There is a pandemic going on. Freedoms are already ceded here, look at Auckland. Its just a tool, and if one day the virus dies out, you can throw the virus card in the bin. Its just one of many tools  that Health Orders have placed on us all, for our health and safety.

tdgeek:

 

Handle9:

 

It's really not. I think it is necessary but it is a significant infringement on civil liberties. So are lockdowns and border controls.

 

 

My meaning is that we already use licences to allow us to do certain things. Is a Butter Chicken more important than the health and welfare of our population. It's based I assume on health orders so is another tool we have to combat the pandemic.

 

A license is something you apply for to do something you want to do. There is a clear element of choice. You are not required to have a drivers license. You can choose not to get one and not drive a car. You will (likely) not die if you can not drive a car.

A vaccine passport is quite different if it's a requirement to do things necessary to sustain life like go and buy food.