2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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131 posts

Master Geek
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#2411384 2-Feb-2020 10:12

mattwnz:
gzt: It would be a good outcome if airlines were required to install superduper aircon biofilters in all planes. The amount of productivity lost and issues due to flight flu...

Yes, this is actually my fear of flying, is getting sick from it. Too many people fly when they knowing have an illness which IMO is so selfish. But who cancel's a flight when their child has a cold or the flue, and could transmit it to other passengers.

This is due to the cancellation policy where you have to forfeit the whole fair even if you have a doctors certificate that you’re unwell. It’s the airlines own greed that’s the problem.

Beccara

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#2411390 2-Feb-2020 10:31

Consumer choice, They buy the lowest price airfare where there's no refund on cancellation or changes. You are free to pay a little more and get that flexibility

Most problems are the result of previous solutions...

All comment's I make are my own personal opinion and do not in any way, shape or form reflect the views of current or former employers unless specifically stated

Batman

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#2411397 2-Feb-2020 10:48

Beccara:
Consumer choice, They buy the lowest price airfare where there's no refund on cancellation or changes. You are free to pay a little more and get that flexibility

It's not a little more. By my recent trip purchase 4 to 10 times more.

Beccara

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#2411399 2-Feb-2020 10:56

Auckland to London flight, $500 different on a $3k flight on VA, Changes for Qatar are available on all Fare types for $270, Cancellation $360. What on earth flights are you looking at that just being able to make changes/cancel with a refund is 4x-10x? Are you talking about jumping from Econ to Biz?

Fred99

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#2411400 2-Feb-2020 10:58

Beccara:

Consumer choice, They buy the lowest price airfare where there's no refund on cancellation or changes. You are free to pay a little more and get that flexibility

True - but when consumer choice and public health matters clash, commerce is often regulated (to protect public health).

703

131 posts

Master Geek
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#2411447 2-Feb-2020 11:31

Beccara:

Consumer choice, They buy the lowest price airfare where there's no refund on cancellation or changes. You are free to pay a little more and get that flexibility

Do you work for an airline? The consumer shouldn't have to make that choice if there are reasonable grounds to obtain a refund in the name of public health safety. I am not going to waste $500 in the event I might catch a cold.

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Fred99

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#2411522 2-Feb-2020 13:15

And the official daily update from China:

At 04:00 on February 1st, 31 provinces (autonomous regions, municipalities) and the Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps reported 2590 newly confirmed cases (1921 cases in Hubei Province) and 315 severe cases (268 cases in Hubei Province). An increase of 45 death cases (45 cases in Hubei Province), an additional 85 cured cases (49 cases in Hubei Province), and 4562 suspected cases (2606 cases in Hubei Province).
　　As of 24:00 on February 1, the National Health and Health Commission has received a cumulative report of 14,380 confirmed cases (31 cases in Guangdong Province) and 31 cases of severe cases (accumulated deaths) in 31 provinces (autonomous regions, municipalities) and Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps. There were 304 cases, a total of 328 discharged patients cured, and a total of 19,544 suspected cases.
　　At present, a total of 163,844 close contacts have been tracked, and 8044 people have been released from medical observation on the same day. A total of 137,594 people are receiving medical observation.
　　A total of 31 confirmed cases were reported from Hong Kong, Macao and Taiwan: 14 in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region, 7 in the Macao Special Administrative Region, and 10 in Taiwan.

Confirmed cases, suspected cases (meeting strict clinical features - but not yet confirmed by rRT-PCR)) and the number under medical observation show still don't show a decline in epidemic growth rate.

Fred99

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#2411527 2-Feb-2020 13:31

This from a couple of days ago seems to have been reasonably accurate:

gzt

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#2411529 2-Feb-2020 13:34

mattwnz:
gzt: It would be a good outcome if airlines were required to install superduper aircon biofilters in all planes. The amount of productivity lost and issues due to flight flu...

Yes, this is actually my fear of flying, is getting sick from it. Too many people fly when they knowing have an illness which IMO is so selfish. But who cancel's a flight when their child has a cold or the flue, and could transmit it to other passengers.

It's no fun travelling with sick kids. Many people cancel if they can I think.

The key will be travel insurance. It usually covers illness iIrc. Does it cover horrible colds or flu? Don't know.

10 hours in the air to most nearest major centers so flight flu is worse for NZ imo.

gzt

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#2411539 2-Feb-2020 13:46

Beccara:
gzt: It would be a good outcome if airlines were required to install superduper aircon biofilters in all planes. The amount of productivity lost and issues due to flight flu...

Aircraft already use HEPA filters which help alot and dump most the used cabin air outside bringing in fresh air into the cabin at something like 15 time per hour. With this in mind given people still get sick in planes it's the contact you can come into with an infected person that spreads it around, Typically illnesses spread only a couple of rows around a person and via the hands IIRC

Good points - except my vacuum cleaner has a hepa filter. Hepa alone will not destroy airborne viruses. Looks like hepa standards specify size as 0.3 μm much bigger than any virus.

But yeah based on your points adding additional and effective virus biofilter to that might not make a 100% difference if most transmission is over the seats and door handles etc.

Free in flight hand sanitizer required and in flight instructors ; ).

mattwnz

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#2411572 2-Feb-2020 15:54

gzt:
mattwnz:
gzt: It would be a good outcome if airlines were required to install superduper aircon biofilters in all planes. The amount of productivity lost and issues due to flight flu...

Yes, this is actually my fear of flying, is getting sick from it. Too many people fly when they knowing have an illness which IMO is so selfish. But who cancel's a flight when their child has a cold or the flue, and could transmit it to other passengers.

It's no fun travelling with sick kids. Many people cancel if they can I think.

The key will be travel insurance. It usually covers illness iIrc. Does it cover horrible colds or flu? Don't know.

10 hours in the air to most nearest major centers so flight flu is worse for NZ imo.

I was meaning when people are still well enough to travel, but still infectious. Often people will still go to work if they have a cold, because it doesn't affect productivity and other people will also likely have colds in the office. But it is different when travelling when people are in close proximity to another and the airflow is being circulated around the cabin. .

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Batman

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#2411583 2-Feb-2020 16:41

Beccara:

There's strong evidence that the Virus was seen as early as Dec 12th. The China stats are troublesome to say the least

this guy details the real timeline. also doctors were arrested for reporting the outbreak in december. also anyone who posts news about the outbreak have also been arrested.

Fred99

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#2411598 2-Feb-2020 16:52

Just being announced as "breaking news" on Stuff that NZ is to introduce travel restrictions very similar to Aus/US - which although on the surface seem draconian and unfortunately will reinforce the escalation of racism/bigotry already rearing its ugly head, it seems necessary under the circumstances:

The outbreak in China is not under control.
The disease can definitely be passed on by asymptomatic carriers.
The rRT-PCR test being used is not reliable enough. (false negatives)
Much about the virulence of the disease is unknown - final mortality rate, % of infected needing ICU, long term health impacts on "recovered" patients etc.

The travel advisory "Do Not Travel" has been extended to cover all of mainland China.

Beccara

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#2411601 2-Feb-2020 17:00

And our first confirmed death outside China aswell, Dude in Manila died yesterday as I understand it

GV27

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#2411602 2-Feb-2020 17:02

Fred99:

Confirmed cases, suspected cases (meeting strict clinical features - but not yet confirmed by rRT-PCR)) and the number under medical observation show still don't show a decline in epidemic growth rate.

My back of envelope workings suggest they dipped momentarily - should have hit 10K within China on Friday but have now continued at 1.3x after crossing the 10K threshold. In all likelihood I don't think the number of infections dropped off as the virus spread to new places within China - whether that Friday number was low by error or by design, it's feels slightly out of place.

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