2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2786453 29-Sep-2021 16:55

heavenlywild:

mattwnz:

heavenlywild:

Get the saliva tests going - more people will be happy to take those than the nasal swabs.

Apparently they are not as accurate yet. But National were suggesting this too, but said they need to be done in addition to the current test, and not as a replacement.

Agree that it isn't as accurate but on the plus side at least more people would be willing to get tested :)

Both of your claims are incorrect.

There have been no concerns around the accuracy of saliva testing since tests were validated late in 2020 and early 2021. Saliva testing is as accurate as nasopharyngeal swab, and the MoH announced that ~4 months ago.

For the last ~6 weeks border workers can now opt for 100% saliva testing, so don't need to have a nasopharyngeal swab any longer if they opt for this. Saliva testing is performed 2x per week rather than the 1x per week for a nasopharyngeal swab.

The problem with saliva tests is still the whole MoH tender process and the provider they opted to use who have struggled to ramp up, meaning for they are simply not an option for the general public.

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#2786457 29-Sep-2021 17:01

kiwikurt:

I guess we all have our prejudices but as a mid-elder millennial and someone who works with a broad range of ages that assumption does not follow at all. I've certainly seen disregard for the concerns of older and more vulnerable people from shall we say those on the non-younger side.

I did use the qualifiers 'often seems' but I stand by my sweeping generalisation. If proven wrong, I am happy to apologise.

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#2786458 29-Sep-2021 17:02

NZ has done a good piece on the issue with NZ being flu free.

In short, we are going to have the flu season from hell when we open up to isolation free arrivals.

There is enough flu circulating globally to seed outbreaks, but little enough to pick out what strains for the flu vaccine to cover really hard

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/nz-is-still-flu-free-heres-the-problem-with-that/MMHFMFUXHIN7Y32NGH4TISOIA4/

I think we might need to push for 80%+ of the total population to be vaccinated for flu (and cross our fingers that the vaccine covers the right strains) before allowing isolation free arrival.

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#2786490 29-Sep-2021 18:09

sbiddle:

Both of your claims are incorrect.

There have been no concerns around the accuracy of saliva testing since tests were validated late in 2020 and early 2021. Saliva testing is as accurate as nasopharyngeal swab, and the MoH announced that ~4 months ago.

For the last ~6 weeks border workers can now opt for 100% saliva testing, so don't need to have a nasopharyngeal swab any longer if they opt for this. Saliva testing is performed 2x per week rather than the 1x per week for a nasopharyngeal swab.

The problem with saliva tests is still the whole MoH tender process and the provider they opted to use who have struggled to ramp up, meaning for they are simply not an option for the general public.

It's a little more nuanced than that, as per the second text I highlighted, the lower accuracy of a single saliva test is offset by doing two tests vs a single nasal swab.

So for community testing etc in outbreaks, one quick stick up the nose is better - except for that fact that people do not like it having in done - so a slightly less accurate test that actually gets done is infinitely better than a more accurate test that even an infected symptomatic person may be inclined to avoid.

My SO got tested about an hour ago in Chch, apparently the nurse doing the test had the gentle touch unlike the last test she had, but she certainly did not enjoy it.

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#2786509 29-Sep-2021 18:41

There'll be a large portion of those people refusing tests not because they don't want something shoved up their nose, but because they don't want to be ordered into a facility for 14 days should it come back positive.

Fred99

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#2786513 29-Sep-2021 18:44

Ge0rge: There'll be a large portion of those people refusing tests not because they don't want something shoved up their nose, but because they don't want to be ordered into a facility for 14 days should it come back positive.

Yeah - unfortunately I guess that's true as well.

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#2786515 29-Sep-2021 18:52

sbiddle:

heavenlywild:

Agree that it isn't as accurate but on the plus side at least more people would be willing to get tested :)

Both of your claims are incorrect.

Is there confusion about PCR testing of nasal vs saliva here compared to saliva lateral flow rapid testing, which I understand do have a higher false negative rate, and are also much more likely to be done incorrectly because they are DIY?

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tdgeek

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#2786574 29-Sep-2021 19:23

mattwnz:

But it wouldn't mean this. It probably would mean that no one would be allowed to go to work, and they need to stay home. There had been no reports of people catching covid this time from supermarket shopping or from getting things delivered contactlessly. This is why is level 4.5 works be best to be used for suburbs. People get paid a helicopter payment to cover lost income etc. They were discussing this on the news last night.

Agree but no helicopter payment.

Lockdown works. Not if "some" people disregard it. NSW they repeatedly blasted those who didn't comply. NZ doesnt do this. But IMHO it needs to be hammered home. AKL is in for a long period of restrictions, but Id wager that most by far, complied.

Either those, man up, or most suffer.

tdgeek

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#2786575 29-Sep-2021 19:25

Mattnzl:

Exactly - most of us here probably live in households that have at least a few days food stored, and maybe weeks worth even if it wasn't particularly healthy or what we would prefer to eat.

A large number of households work on the "Just-In-Time" food method where there is absolutely nothing to eat each day until the visit to the dairy/supermarket for that days food.

Yep. if they said stick up food for two weeks, easy, no supermarkets, no dairies, no gas stations as you are all at home. But many cant budget two weeks of food. But it would work. Then you have the gangs and intermingling household with BBQ's

tdgeek

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#2786576 29-Sep-2021 19:29

mattwnz:

It does if it only applies to certain suburbs. But the window to eliminate the virus is closing. Auckland could be in suppression mode in a level 3 for months. I suspect what may happen is that they may go down to a level 2 but without gatherings and everything social distanced, and the border will remain closed to the rest of NZ, and the government will just continue to push vaccination. It seems that they are now on a suppression mode, not elimination mode

Level 2 is history. Given that AKL cannot manage the lockdown (and sorry to the 95+% who do) it will be extended till vaccination kicks in.

They are in elimination mode but "some" of the AKL population isnt, its as simple as that. Now, we cannot blame people, but where does blame and accountability seperate?

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#2786579 29-Sep-2021 19:34

Ge0rge: There'll be a large portion of those people refusing tests not because they don't want something shoved up their nose, but because they don't want to be ordered into a facility for 14 days should it come back positive.

Nailed it

If the penalty for a positive test was to stay at home watching Netflix that would work. Is it as safe as MIQ? No. But do you want 0 in MIQ or 20 at home?

tdgeek

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#2786602 29-Sep-2021 19:53

Another day of bumper Delta cases will mean the level 3 restrictions aren’t stopping Covid-19 from spreading, a leading epidemiologist says, as officials warn the virus has “seeded itself” in the homeless and gang communities.

I find this to be rubbish

Homeless and gangs, yes an issue. Level 3 and 4 are working, its down to how many are not complying. It seems an age ago that households whether they be families getting together or neighbours are the main cause of this. But gangs are more newsworthy.

Rules work. Not if you dont obey them

If accountability is an issue (and yes. I know thats delicate) then forget containing this outbreak.

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#2786607 29-Sep-2021 20:18

tdgeek:

Level 3 and 4 are working, its down to how many are not complying.

There appears to be quite a few selfish dicks who can't help themselves but go out.

gzt

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#2786609 29-Sep-2021 20:24

There was way too much going on near the end of L4. L3 did not look great. This is way too much to blame on 'gangs'..

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#2786633 29-Sep-2021 20:47

gzt: There was way too much going on near the end of L4. L3 did not look great. This is way too much to blame on 'gangs'..

i think too much going on near end of L4 was due to lockdown fatigue. for one week every day at 6pm One News was literally "counting down" to L3. if media has lockdown fatigue what more the residents of Auckland after 5 weeks.

i don't think we're "blaming" gangs. it's factually correct, it's happened, it's an observation that is true. we've been observing this during L4 but nobody did anythnig. day after day we see gang members testing positive.

stuff happens, this is the way the cookie crumbles with delta.

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