2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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BDFL - Memuneh
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#2788346 2-Oct-2021 18:17

heavenlywild:
freitasm:

heavenlywild:

Exactly. How many people are dying now because they can't get medical treatment? A spike in young adolescents committing suicide. So many unintended consequences.

My point is there are always competing priorities. There's currently no balance to how the govt sees things.

Do you have hard numbers or just a question thrown in?

Based on media news stories in recent days. The same media that doesn't ask the tough questions to govt.

Ok, so just some baseless statement, unless the media news stories cites a source.

GV27

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#2788349 2-Oct-2021 18:20

We heard a lot about suicides last time, but the data didn't measure a rise during lockdown.

Biggest concern I've heard this time around is about people who may start experiencing symptoms of cancers who are now unable to seek a GP consult or specialist referral and the potential log-jam this might cause on top of the lockdown delays in starting the treatment process.

tdgeek

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#2788351 2-Oct-2021 18:23

GV27:

Honestly, without getting too heavy on the political side - I have no idea.

I find it hard to justify a boundary to keep Covid in but lowering alert levels with the knowledge it can more easily spread behind that hard border.

At some point Auckland will simply have had enough of being the country's crash test dummy. I don't think we're there yet, but two major events in two days without police intervention will get us there a lot faster.

The schism between Auckland and the rest of the country is bad enough (look at the complaining when Auckland gets funding for an infrastructure project to catch us up with all the extra people that the government keeps adding to our population), but the rest of the population seem quite happy to pretend Covid is an Auckland problem like all the others and complain about why they can't go about their lives.

I don't think Auckland will forget this in a hurry.

I have no idea either, either we lock you down forever or we infect you all, its a rock and a hard place. Im not an Aucklander although I was raised there. Don't think of it as a Jaffa issue, its not. If this happened where I live now, in ChCh and all of you were locked down because of us, it's similar. No, ChCh is not AKL

While I favour the health over economics issue, the fact is the Tamaki's and households have screwed it. Lockdown period that could have easily worked.

Id like a nuanced approach to AKL to recognise the suburbs that are fine and those that arent. L4 vs L3 vs L2. Not easy, but what other option is there?

Feel free to go heavy on the political side. Some people have screwed this lockdown so the lockdown to L4 for 14 days and ease back is a non issue now.

mkissin

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#2788353 2-Oct-2021 18:24

Always remember: the plural of “anecdote” isn’t “data”. The media will make a gigantic deal of single events, because it’s in their interests to do so.

tdgeek

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#2788355 2-Oct-2021 18:28

mattwnz: The governemnt need to be doing more. They need to get hard on these flouters. More people also need to dob them in. As shown by NSW and Victoria these mass gatherings have led to significant increases in cases. I can't understand why they announced big increases in fines, but they haven't brought them in yet. Auckland is like a slow train crash at the moment,
they really should have done more to stamp it out under level 4, and really ring fencing it . Instead they claimed they're was no widespread community transmission occurring and dropped a level, when there was at least low level CT occurring. I also wish they would follow the advice of NZs top epidemiologists like Prof Baker.

Fair enough but you are letting ALL of these idiots off, you are saying they can take no ownership. I get the MoH calls the advice, the Govt takes that advice but you are actually avoiding the core issue. SOME PEOPLE.

IMHO the outbreak was well contained. SOME PEOPLE screwed it. But you are letting them off. We are all given rules, do you want MP's to patrol the streets? Silly comment, yes, but you need to offer a solution not just complaints.

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#2788356 2-Oct-2021 18:30

gzt: Tamaki's protest had less attendance than previous morality protests he's organised. Imo many of the church members were not keen on this one.

Media said thousands, then I read a thousand. If it's 10 its too much, arrest them for breach of health orders. If say they did, I can see this escalating. Maybe that's not a bad thing

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#2788357 2-Oct-2021 18:34

Scott3:

Level 4 wasn't working to eliminate the outbreak in a reasonable time

Level 4 was working, its that simple.

The people are not complying. Households, large families, and much later on gangs and Tamaki. Level 6 wont fix that

The Govt needs to recognise Auckland and call out the idiots

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Handle9

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#2788358 2-Oct-2021 18:34

Fred99:
Handle9:

Now big protests have started. Things are pretty much following the same pattern as Victoria and NSW.

I though that it was a Tamaki march run under the banner of "Jesus Loves Me - This I Know - Donate to Me - Covid Will Go"

Kind of different from NSW and Vic. He should be locked up - no point giving him a fine as sadly the mainly poor and uneducated members of his cult will end up paying any fine the courts could throw at him.

Yes he should be locked up. It’s beyond me why that hasn’t happened.

I guess the police didn’t break it up as they didn’t want a riot. Unfortunately it creates a bit “what about” example for people who don’t want to follow the rules.

neb

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#2788359 2-Oct-2021 18:34

Reanalyse:
The Tamaki and gangs activity, especially as it seems to be approved by the police, is just a kick in the teeth for us.

This move is a bit nasty, but the government could announce that because of the actions of the gangs and the Tamaki cult, Auckland will have to go back to level 4 for... well, doesn't really matter, any time period will do. Then sit back and wait as people make their feelings known to the gangs and cult leaders.

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#2788361 2-Oct-2021 18:37

GV27:

Still reckon the best chance is the vaccine passport, but current indications are that's early Nov at the earliest, which is probably just too long for most still under L3 to bother continuing to obey the lockdown rules.

Labour Weekend really is the make-or-break for whether we get on top of this - if we're not at L2 by then, I suspect many will just decide to act like we are.

Thats a good option. Seperate the idiots from the 1.7M. If we can land on comets, and Google and Apple knows more about you than you do, it cant be that hard to get a vaccine passport to support normal people.

GV27

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#2788362 2-Oct-2021 18:38

tdgeek:

While I favour the health over economics issue, the fact is the Tamaki's and households have screwed it. Lockdown period that could have easily worked.

Id like a nuanced approach to AKL to recognise the suburbs that are fine and those that arent. L4 vs L3 vs L2. Not easy, but what other option is there?

Feel free to go heavy on the political side. Some people have screwed this lockdown so the lockdown to L4 for 14 days and ease back is a non issue now.

Plenty of well-off areas had low compliance with masking and social distancing. North Shore cafes and Tamaki Drive spring to mind.

Unfortunately the criss-cross of Aucklanders going across the district means that moving between alert levels within the region isn't sustainable. South Auckland has our freight hubs and supermarket distribution centres. And L2 is going to mean most store-front retail is back up and running, which means malls and other close quarters trading.

As much as I'd love to say the Tamakis stuffed us up, we're really just lucky that Delta hasn't actually been as bad as it seemed like it would; no major spreading at supermarkets etc. If that was the case then some of our more relaxed, more well-off parts of Auckland would have done us in ages ago.

Like I say, no real easy answers. Extending for another week seems like a crappy option for maintaining buy-in. Keeping the rest of the country at L2 seems like a crappy deal for them. But dropping Auckland to a Level 2-but-not-really state with a hard border but greater community spread within it just so you can lower the rest of the country down alert levels also seems like a crappy idea. I'm personally not sure we haven't seen the back of L4 either.

I don't envy the PM or the cabinet in making this decision. They are 100% assured to piss someone off out there. I'm starting to think we're going to get a L2.75 but with a 'This could easily become Level 4 again at a couple of hour's notice if stuff starts to get out of control'. The smart businesses out there could make hay while the sun shined and the rest of the country could be put on notice that their vax rates need to come up in time for Auckland's reopening.

tdgeek

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#2788365 2-Oct-2021 18:40

Fred99:

I though that it was a Tamaki march run under the banner of "Jesus Loves Me - This I Know - Donate to Me - Covid Will Go"

Kind of different from NSW and Vic. He should be locked up - no point giving him a fine as sadly the mainly poor and uneducated members of his cult will end up paying any fine the courts could throw at him.

And he wore a mask, thats ironic. He knows its a threat, so he sends the believers to the sword.

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#2788367 2-Oct-2021 18:42

Fred99:

TBH, unless there's very high vaccination rates in the >12 age group, then it's probably pointless. Very few small kids get seriously sick, and the selfish antivax dickheads in the 18-50 age group will be 100% sure of acting as a reservoir of infection - they will be the killers in NZ's endemic covid rollout.

I agree, but isnt the issue that these kids spread it at school, and hence to other parents?

Daynger

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#2788373 2-Oct-2021 18:50

tdgeek:

Fred99:

I though that it was a Tamaki march run under the banner of "Jesus Loves Me - This I Know - Donate to Me - Covid Will Go"

Kind of different from NSW and Vic. He should be locked up - no point giving him a fine as sadly the mainly poor and uneducated members of his cult will end up paying any fine the courts could throw at him.

And he wore a mask, thats ironic. He knows its a threat, so he sends the believers to the sword.

I know its not nice to say but hopefully BT catches covid, makes a huge song and dance about how he is fighting it with ivermectin or some other such useless garbage then either dies or becomes an invalid.

Might enlighten a few that think their imaginary friend will make it all better.

tdgeek

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#2788374 2-Oct-2021 18:52

GV27:

Plenty of well-off areas had low compliance with masking and social distancing. North Shore cafes and Tamaki Drive spring to mind.

Unfortunately the criss-cross of Aucklanders going across the district means that moving between alert levels within the region isn't sustainable. South Auckland has our freight hubs and supermarket distribution centres. And L2 is going to mean most store-front retail is back up and running, which means malls and other close quarters trading.

As much as I'd love to say the Tamakis stuffed us up, we're really just lucky that Delta hasn't actually been as bad as it seemed like it would; no major spreading at supermarkets etc. If that was the case then some of our more relaxed, more well-off parts of Auckland would have done us in ages ago.

Like I say, no real easy answers. Extending for another week seems like a crappy option for maintaining buy-in. Keeping the rest of the country at L2 seems like a crappy deal for them. But dropping Auckland to a Level 2-but-not-really state with a hard border but greater community spread within it just so you can lower the rest of the country down alert levels also seems like a crappy idea. I'm personally not sure we haven't seen the back of L4 either.

I don't envy the PM or the cabinet in making this decision. They are 100% assured to piss someone off out there. I'm starting to think we're going to get a L2.75 but with a 'This could easily become Level 4 again at a couple of hour's notice if stuff starts to get out of control'. The smart businesses out there could make hay while the sun shined and the rest of the country could be put on notice that their vax rates need to come up in time for Auckland's reopening.

Agree. What pisses me off is that most of you did the right thing. Ok, not all, but most, most works. But these large households really get at me, the have been spawning cases forever. Then you factor in the gangs, Tamaki, something needs to be done. A line in the sand. I "assume" Health Orders matter, the Govt needs to go hard go early go Militant on these people. Otherwise you and I will be saying the same things in November. JK isnt helping, we need to live with the virus. Yes we can (according to the caps in NYC on my honeymoon in 2008 :-) ) Living with the virus is what will happen, thats already the plan, but its not the plan on Oct 2.

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