2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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Uber Geek

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#2795158 14-Oct-2021 13:31

Think you call this a slap in the face for giving freedoms as a taste of what it's like out of lockdowns and asking them to use it wisely.

Batman

Mad Scientist
29760 posts

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#2795162 14-Oct-2021 13:35

TeaLeaf:
GV27:

53 unlinked cases alone in the last two days.

Wow. We're really just going to let this rip, huh.

I thought that was already a given the day they moved to lvl3.
To me it felt like the Govt thought, lvl 3, she'll be right cobber, those jafas are a compliant bunch, we wont help those in need financially, target covid hot spots, fine and potentially imprison flouters, nah, we don't need to actually live there to know whats actually going on etc. Its NZ, what could possibly go wrong.

Yup let's hope they've learnt something from watching other countries burn in the last 18 months to prepare for our turn

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#2795165 14-Oct-2021 13:43

Batman:

Yup let's hope they've learnt something from watching other countries burn in the last 18 months to prepare for our turn

Hopefully its more of a smolder :-p. Just on that, is there any news on where we are at with managing hospital, ICU and staff additional requirements relative to the modelled data that we will require?

Ive not seen anything as of yet, aside from some weeks back where they identified we will need more :-). Would be nice to know, should things go south, what are the chances of any medical assistance etc.

I doubt they will release anything per district health board though. Although the article I posted on Middlemore was at least some insight into what is coming.

GV27

5896 posts

Uber Geek

#2795166 14-Oct-2021 13:46

Fred99:

"Gatherings inside people's homes" identified as main factor behind growth in cases.

Nothing do with the relaxing of alert levels despite still having cases in the community?

How convenient.

arcon

423 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2795171 14-Oct-2021 13:55

TeaLeaf:

Again, the threat of severe financial loss or imprsonment was required for such nonsense. Just tolerating and doing nothing (almost like they didnt see it coming, or did and didn't worry anyway), is the biggest mistake that has been made, in many aspects of this pandemic handling in NZ.

Yeah he weakness of "lets talk softly and not discuss consequences" has been utterly exposed with Delta.

The argument of not wanting to inspire fear for sake of compliance doesn't hold up. Its not like its hard to craft a dual narrative that talks kindly to the vast majority of good apples and is and is more confronting to the bad apples. Not only would that seem like common sense, its politically savvy... the good apple majority would eat it up... I would lol.

vexxxboy

4243 posts

Uber Geek

#2795173 14-Oct-2021 13:56

GV27:

Fred99:

"Gatherings inside people's homes" identified as main factor behind growth in cases.

Nothing do with the relaxing of alert levels despite still having cases in the community?

How convenient.

it would still be happening at level 4 , certain people are just over lockdowns and there is not much you can do about it and the government knows this and it's why we wont go back to level 4 , the horse is way past the horizon .

Common sense is not as common as you think.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#2795175 14-Oct-2021 13:58

GV27:

Nothing do with the relaxing of alert levels despite still having cases in the community?

How convenient.

Now now, Im sure their data holds up :-). Strange how prior large family situations (10+ to a house etc) were not given as reasonings.

You have to feel bad for that region whichever avenue the Govt took it, lvl4, not enough funding, lvl 3 (v2) and the local hospital will already be starting to buckle given it was already at capacity prior, or at least the link i posted a few days back conveyed.

Any news on how the SI is getting on wanting to be an independent country? I'd especially like to know what their game plan is for when the virus will enter if they hope to have tourists again.....

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GV27

5896 posts

Uber Geek

#2795177 14-Oct-2021 14:01

vexxxboy:

it would still be happening at level 4 , certain people are just over lockdowns and there is not much you can do about it and the government knows this and it's why we wont go back to level 4 , the horse is way past the horizon .

So our entire covid response hinged on the people like gangs who have refused to follow any kind of social norms suddenly deciding to go along with what's best for everyone else?

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#2795184 14-Oct-2021 14:06

arcon:

Yeah he weakness of "lets talk softly and not discuss consequences" has been utterly exposed with Delta.

the good apple majority would eat it up... I would lol.

Who doesnt like good apples, especially the candy covered ones :-) Well said.

Yep, I'm not copping this "its not the Govts fault its the flouters" rubbish. Its both. Which is the responsibility of the former, to pass legislation and hold the 2nd to task. But its also just every day people trying to live the way they are accustomed too.

Which is pretty much what the "get vaxxd" Professor from Auckland UNI said, the Govt/PM needs to get back to doing its day job, passing legislation and leave pandemic matters up to the experts, of whom recent articles have suggested some were blind sided by dropping from lvl 4 to 3.

It also wasn't just flouters, it was normal every day people, who congregated and or lived in large family groups etc and those on the fringes. Regardless of who it was, had they implemented some of the captain obvious proactive type changes before or even during lvl4 (aside from closing the door to a delta hotspot😕), Im fairly positive regardless of everybody being potential spreaders, they could have eliminated.

Fred99

13684 posts

Uber Geek

#2795188 14-Oct-2021 14:09

GV27:

vexxxboy:

it would still be happening at level 4 , certain people are just over lockdowns and there is not much you can do about it and the government knows this and it's why we wont go back to level 4 , the horse is way past the horizon .

So our entire covid response hinged on the people like gangs who have refused to follow any kind of social norms suddenly deciding to go along with what's best for everyone else?

That may have been exaggerated - media was pushing that line hard because "bad guys" (which of course they are).

It's harder to portray people as villains when they're popping over to Auntie's house for a cup of tea.

Covid was coming to your place (and mine) anyway. Would have been much more comfortable if we'd been able to delay it another month.

Buster

297 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2795193 14-Oct-2021 14:18

Lowest common denominator. Weakest link.

Often that is just where you end up despite best efforts by the majority.

ezbee

2405 posts

Uber Geek

#2795251 14-Oct-2021 14:28

Unfortunately there are those that enjoy signs of end of times, or the chaos is profitable drugs and such.
However some of the mixing might be Choirs, Craft beer, Kava group, or knitting circle ?

Middlemore has apparently borrowed staff from other regions ?
So what happens in a wide outbreak, with cases in other DHBs where they want their staff back ?

This is experience of a Doctor who was in the UK.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/2018814766/ryan-salter-making-difficult-decisions-about-rationing-medical-care

You lower level of care and ration that care. Other services stop, so don't have an accident get sick.
Require diagnosis or treatment for something progressive and time critical like cancer.
People of Southland may know that one well.

Who knew you need well staffed Hospitals, Community Medical Services and Welfare Services.
Having extra capability to have active training programs to keep up with those that retire.

I really hoped we would have got an extra few months to get down to 5yr olds approved.

Hopefully people holding out do see that vaccination is NOW a priority
If not for themselves for their family and community.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#2795253 14-Oct-2021 14:32

Yes, its too easy to blame flouters, rather than simply facing the statistics (of which were largely normal every day Aucklanders, trying to live the best lives they could during lvl4, relying on the Govt that should there be a problem with said living they would come knocking and tell them about it) and doing something proactive about it, before giving up on elimination.

ie door to door, more financial aid, an extra hospital given the current one already bulging.

What was the largest demographic? who was the largest demographic of unvaccinated? How and where did these people live? Was it more than 6 ppl to a 3 bedroom house? etc

But now that they have given up on elimination, the next proactive questions around statistics need to be asked and resolved, who, where, how many, why etc. Yet where are the answers to these questions and why are they not doing (or at least saying they are doing) something about it?

ezbee:

Who knew you need well staffed Hospitals, Community Medical Services and Welfare Services.
Having extra capability to have active training programs to keep up with those that retire.

Yes, indeed. Seems rather obvious huh. Like I said, NZs economy is a false one given the Tax money actually spent on public health, let alone infrastructure.

To make a lower socio economic situation even worse, it also has the worst hospital. Not because the staff don't try hard, but the infrastructure, resources and funding just doesn't seem to be there, for what are some of the most at risk folk in NZ. A double whammy of sorts. Its sickening.

Buster

297 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2795262 14-Oct-2021 14:38

If Auckland had stayed at L4 the covid embers would have kept smoldering away regardless all this time and Aucklanders in general would be very agitated by now.

TeaLeaf

6325 posts

Uber Geek

#2795267 14-Oct-2021 14:45

Buster: If Auckland had stayed at L4 the covid embers would have kept smoldering away regardless all this time and Aucklanders in general would be very agitated by now.

True, if they didn't do anything proactive about what the statistics were telling them and add additional policing of road use plus add extreme consequences to not using the roads as per instructed, during what was a civil and health requirement. On the other hand, a more proactive approach at lvl4 would likely have seen elimination by now, not a guarantee, but just seems glaringly obvious they could have done more to at least try, rather than waiting for the numbers to be traced. I feel this is a massive disgrace of leading from a far with little understanding of the cultural aspects of who, where, why and when etc and doing something about those statistics.

We should never have left the delta door open in the first place. But more so while doing nothing in the background while we smugly enjoyed our amazing pandemic plan and execution we had for sarscov2, just in case NZ by some other miracle contracted a case of covid.

it just feels all so overwhelmingly obvious, complacency toward a pandemic which we had seen cripple other countries.

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