2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2795873 15-Oct-2021 12:26

PWC follows Russell McVeagh with a vaccine mandate for anybody entering their premises.

Good thing - life's going to get very hard for anti-vaxxers.

trig42

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#2795895 15-Oct-2021 13:13

I wonder which retailer will be first.

KMart in Australia has done it (there may be others, KMart was the one I saw an article on).

tdgeek

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#2795896 15-Oct-2021 13:18

Buster: Just under 2200 cases in Victoria today. They think they will peak in about two weeks.

Thats worse than NSW got to?

VIC moving out or down lockdowns next week due to vaccination status. I guess they feel those cases are acceptable.

KrazyKid

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#2795907 15-Oct-2021 13:31

Kmart in Aussie is only requiring NSW customers to be double vaccinated.
This is in line with the NSW rules on for opening up. Staff are not required to vaccinate yet.

On the other hand in Aussie Westpac and CBA have just announced all staff must be vaccinated by the 1st December.

wellygary

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#2795927 15-Oct-2021 14:17

Well,

NSW have thrown caution to the Wind, and will scrap all quarantine for travellers, (international and presumably inter-state) from 1 November...

The only requirements are a neg pre-dep test and fully vaxxed....

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-15/nsw-to-scrap-quarantine-for-overseas-arrivals/100541348

tdgeek

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#2795929 15-Oct-2021 14:24

wellygary:

Well,

NSW have thrown caution to the Wind, and will scrap all quarantine for travellers, (international and presumably inter-state) from 1 November...

The only requirements are a neg pre-dep test and fully vaxxed....

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-15/nsw-to-scrap-quarantine-for-overseas-arrivals/100541348

Yeah, and VIC with record cases yesterday are easing back next week.

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#2795931 15-Oct-2021 14:30

tdgeek:

VIC moving out or down lockdowns next week due to vaccination status. I guess they feel those cases are acceptable.

At over 260 days of lockdown during the pandemic, the compliance here is already very low, and waning every day. The high case numbers will in part be because of this - if our current restrictions were actually followed by everyone the numbers would likely be a fraction.

Another key element is that for 18 months now everyone has been told that vaccines are our path out. If they didn't ease restrictions at high vaccination numbers there would very likely be significant public backlash, and if that was known in advance many people would not bother getting one.

The next few weeks will be interesting for sure as both VIC and NSW open up. I'm sure the public health teams and govt in NZ will be watching very closely to see what happens here and using that to inform some of their next steps.

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wellygary

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#2795932 15-Oct-2021 14:32

tdgeek:

Yeah, and VIC with record cases yesterday are easing back next week.

VIC's fully vaxxed rates are worse than Auckland (62% vs 66%) - 1st does are about even (87-88%) so it will be very interesting to see how that goes....

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#2795934 15-Oct-2021 14:44

wellygary:

VIC's fully vaxxed rates are worse than Auckland (62% vs 66%) - 1st does are about even (87-88%) so it will be very interesting to see how that goes....

It's actually a little worse than that because most of the reporting here is on 16+ not 12+. Today VIC is at 62.6% double vaxxed 16+. I can't find any numbers on 12+

They are using 16+ as that is what the "National Plan" targets were tied to, and these were set before 12-15 year olds were eligible

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Technofreak

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#2795943 15-Oct-2021 15:17

Geektastic:

I was talking to someone who works for the DHBs yesterday - turns out "no jab - no job" is nowhere near as simple as it sounds (bet you're surprised!) and there is much panic about how to deal with what is a heavily unionised work environment when people refuse.

I suggested that the government had given clear guidance what to do, but apparently not. The question becomes "do we stand them down on pay, make them take leave they have accrued, stand them down on no pay etc etc".

My plan that I would simply fire them and have any complaints about that directed to the Minister for Health and the PM since they issued the policywas not thought workable, although it seemed simple enough to me! 😁

I don't think the unionised workforce will be a problem.

I know of one worker association which has members affected by the government order for border worker vaccinations which went to the trouble of obtaining a QC's advice should a member wish to make a legal challenge to the jab or your job. The advice was basically don't bother as the chances of success are very low.

I'm not sure how the current mandate for the teachers, hospital workers, etc compares to the border worker one but if it has been done in the same manner by government order then I'd guess most unions won't be wasting their money supporting a small group of workers who wish to try and buck the system.

There's already precedent with the recent court ruling where there was a challenge to the jab or job policy that was lost.

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#2795955 15-Oct-2021 15:37

wellygary:
Well,

NSW have thrown caution to the Wind, and will scrap all quarantine for travellers, (international and presumably inter-state) from 1 November...

The only requirements are a neg pre-dep test and fully vaxxed....

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-15/nsw-to-scrap-quarantine-for-overseas-arrivals/100541348

Well, before you know it, what big brother does little sister will follow... Time will prove me right or wrong I guess!

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#2795958 15-Oct-2021 15:44

Geektastic:
I was talking to someone who works for the DHBs yesterday - turns out "no jab - no job" is nowhere near as simple as it sounds (bet you're surprised!) and there is much panic about how to deal with what is a heavily unionised work environment when people refuse.

I suggested that the government had given clear guidance what to do, but apparently not. The question becomes "do we stand them down on pay, make them take leave they have accrued, stand them down on no pay etc etc".

My plan that I would simply fire them and have any complaints about that directed to the Minister for Health and the PM since they issued the policywas not thought workable, although it seemed simple enough to me! 😁

The ports and customs are heavily unionised and it hasn’t been a problem there.

The government has given clear guidance - while they haven’t enacted the order yet the existing vaccination orders make it clear what is required.

Compliance and disciplinary action, up to dismissal, is a DHB operational matter. They still have to follow a disciplinary process if staff don’t comply but it’s pretty straightforward.

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#2795959 15-Oct-2021 15:49

Fred99:
I'm pretty sure that the government would be fully aware of complications around vaccine mandates, but announced them anyway.

Mandates have huge majority public support. Passing (retrospective) legislation to enforce them is probably on the cards.

They need to provide a much simpler process for businesses. Currently it’s very difficult for businesses to mandate vaccination for staff. Removing the risk of litigation and providing a framework is well overdue.

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#2795974 15-Oct-2021 16:27

Batman:
wellygary:

Well,

NSW have thrown caution to the Wind, and will scrap all quarantine for travellers, (international and presumably inter-state) from 1 November...

The only requirements are a neg pre-dep test and fully vaxxed....

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-15/nsw-to-scrap-quarantine-for-overseas-arrivals/100541348

Well, before you know it, what big brother does little sister will follow... Time will prove me right or wrong I guess!

hmm apparently federal govt not totally in agreement https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-delta-outbreak-scott-morrison-blindsided-by-no-quarantine-detail-in-nsws-border-plan/CL2QMW33MLJ2Q6NYXSZJ3YH4RQ/

GV27

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#2796000 15-Oct-2021 17:30

Technofreak:

There's already precedent with the recent court ruling where there was a challenge to the jab or job policy that was lost.

There was a huge amount of work required to prove it posed an operational risk to have someone in that particular role unvaccinated.

The question is how does a 10 - 20 staff team prove that? I have a young infant, if someone in my team is knowingly unvaccinated, that would arguably pose an unacceptable risk with Delta, which spreads in indoor environments like offices quite easily.

These are the bits that aren't clear as a result of the latest court action and the bits that private employers urgently need a legislative safety net on.

Saying 'they'll probably get around to making this OK retroactively' won't hold much water at the ERA.

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