2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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Ultimate Geek
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#2796122 16-Oct-2021 08:38

Yes, I think vaccines are the way forward too, and am not really keen on L4 or CB methods from here on, but if enough people cried out for them I would accept, no problem. We can't stay in this kind of limbo indefinitely. People need to get vaxed and stop stalling and complaining and making excuses.

And we need to get kids vaxed too.

Batman

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#2796136 16-Oct-2021 09:02

Fred99:
Jeesh - that's an appalling headline (and article) from the NZ Herald. Like NZ's version of Fox News.

Disgusting gutter journalism.

I don't understand

Ge0rge

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#2796137 16-Oct-2021 09:07

I feel as if a bulk text message to all those who use the tracing app about "Super Saturday" might just be targeting the wrong audience.

Eva888

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#2796142 16-Oct-2021 09:10

Watched something in another language where it was mentioned that U.K. was getting many deaths among the vaccinated. Rather shocked me so searched and found the following explanation. In short, the older you are the more risk of dying even vaccinated.

https://theconversation.com/most-covid-deaths-in-england-now-are-in-the-vaccinated-heres-why-that-shouldnt-alarm-you-163671

Then if you look at the UK figures in the charts, you can see the ratio between vaccinated and unvaccinated deaths showing the vaccinated are still winning.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1018416/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_37_v2.pdf

I really think they need to publish such charts simplified so that the hesitant and less educated can see the actual results of being unvaccinated.

Technofreak

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#2796143 16-Oct-2021 09:16

Eva888: Watched something in another language where it was mentioned that U.K. was getting many deaths among the vaccinated. Rather shocked me so searched and found the following explanation. In short, the older you are the more risk of dying even vaccinated.

https://theconversation.com/most-covid-deaths-in-england-now-are-in-the-vaccinated-heres-why-that-shouldnt-alarm-you-163671

Then if you look at the UK figures in the charts, you can see the ratio between vaccinated and unvaccinated deaths showing the vaccinated are still winning.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1018416/Vaccine_surveillance_report_-_week_37_v2.pdf

I really think they need to publish such charts simplified so that the hesitant and less educated can see the actual results of being unvaccinated.

Something similar happened in Israel. The anti vaxxers latched onto the raw data. A deeper dig showed that the vaccines were doing a very good job.

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sen8or

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#2796165 16-Oct-2021 10:26

Handle9:
Fred99:

I'm pretty sure that the government would be fully aware of complications around vaccine mandates, but announced them anyway.

Mandates have huge majority public support. Passing (retrospective) legislation to enforce them is probably on the cards.

They need to provide a much simpler process for businesses. Currently it’s very difficult for businesses to mandate vaccination for staff. Removing the risk of litigation and providing a framework is well overdue.

This is the very quandary we are facing. If our clients insist on only vaxxed contractors entering there premises and we have an anti-vaxxer as one of our techs, who we can no longer send to site to fix problems, where does that leave us?

My layman's opinion is that employee agreements are a two way street and require good faith on both sides. Yes people have a right to choose to be vaccinated or not, but do other employees or the employer have to incur a risk because of that persons choice? If the person can't fulfil their role through their choice, should it be up to an employer to resolve?

This will be a big can of worms where either legislation or case law will be needed quickly to give guidance (as above, case law exists where its Govt. mandated)

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quickymart

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#2796174 16-Oct-2021 11:01

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/10/coronavirus-taranaki-midwives-prepared-to-quit-rather-than-get-vaccinated-against-covid-19.html

Speaking as a parent, personally I don't think people like this should be midwives, they set a bad example to their patients. Even worse (IMO) they won't even say why they won't get the vaccine.

Oblivian

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#2796176 16-Oct-2021 11:08

sen8or:

This will be a big can of worms where either legislation or case law will be needed quickly to give guidance (as above, case law exists where its Govt. mandated)

You are not alone/wrong. Many seem to be waiting for the first person to be scapegoat in the legal front and outcome before following suit.

You have your own employer. Who has a duty of care to ensure your safety at work (and this could come under H&S policies as being one if sent to areas of risk)

They can't openly demand your status or discriminate against it (privacy law)

You have customers that refuse entry based on status - who can't ask your employer of your status without your consent

Or you may have customers who can deny you or require you to because of their mandate from above.

Might be clear cut to someone that sits in an office all day. But not so much when you are visiting others as part of your role and agreements differ the moment you exit the car

Buster

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Ultimate Geek
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#2796179 16-Oct-2021 11:17

Going forward businesses that can guarantee staff are all vaccinated may do better than the ones that neither confirm nor deny.

I'm certainly more likely to support anything vaccinated rather than unknown/not vaccinated.

Batman

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#2796180 16-Oct-2021 11:19

quickymart:
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/10/coronavirus-taranaki-midwives-prepared-to-quit-rather-than-get-vaccinated-against-covid-19.html

Speaking as a parent, personally I don't think people like this should be midwives, they set a bad example to their patients. Even worse (IMO) they won't even say why they won't get the vaccine.

Maybe the invalid benefit is too attractive? Just guessing. Or are there plenty of jobs around that don't require vaccination perhaps.

Eva888

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#2796188 16-Oct-2021 11:42

I volunteer on a hospital ward and as expected, was sent this in part by the organisation I work for.

*Can you please reply to this email to confirm if you have had the two vaccinations by

30 October 2021.

For those we don’t know about, we will assume you haven’t received the vaccine until we hear from you.*

I thought that was a clever way of weeding out those that are not, without forcing an answer. It didn’t say you can’t work unless vaccinated but the implication is clear or why would the question be asked.

I guess the next email will be to those that haven’t answered giving them an extension and telling them they can’t work until they respond positively. The implications of vaccines is going to hit a lot of volunteer organisations and I wonder about the ones that give out food to families in poorer areas.

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Batman

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#2796191 16-Oct-2021 11:55

Eva888: I volunteer on a hospital ward and as expected, was sent this in part by the organisation I work for.

*Can you please reply to this email to confirm if you have had the two vaccinations by

30 October 2021.

For those we don’t know about, we will assume you haven’t received the vaccine until we hear from you.*

I thought that was a clever way of weeding out those that are not, without forcing an answer. It didn’t say you can’t work unless vaccinated but the implication is clear or why would the question be asked.

I guess the next email will be to those that haven’t answered giving them an extension and telling them they can’t work until they respond positively. The implications of vaccines is going to hit a lot of volunteer organisations and I wonder about the ones that give out food to families in poorer areas.

Umm... Can't you just reply and say yes?

ezbee

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#2796192 16-Oct-2021 11:58

United Airlines who some said would be crippled found only 0.3% had to be fired over vaccine mandates.
The bigger effect seems to be when a business is going through paid leave, furlough period before the final point of no return.

United Airlines Firing 232 Employees Who Refused Covid Vaccine, CEO Says
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2021/10/13/united-airlines-firing-232-employees-who-refused-covid-vaccine-ceo-says/?sh=6d5f55014399

""
Speaking with CBS This Morning, Kirby said 99.7% of the Chicago-based airline’s 67,000 U.S. employees have gotten the jab since its vaccine requirement was announced August 6.
""

Eva888

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#2796201 16-Oct-2021 12:12

Batman:
Eva888: I volunteer on a hospital ward and as expected, was sent this in part by the organisation I work for.

*Can you please reply to this email to confirm if you have had the two vaccinations by

30 October 2021.

For those we don’t know about, we will assume you haven’t received the vaccine until we hear from you.*

I thought that was a clever way of weeding out those that are not, without forcing an answer. It didn’t say you can’t work unless vaccinated but the implication is clear or why would the question be asked.

I guess the next email will be to those that haven’t answered giving them an extension and telling them they can’t work until they respond positively. The implications of vaccines is going to hit a lot of volunteer organisations and I wonder about the ones that give out food to families in poorer areas.

Umm... Can't you just reply and say yes?

I did reply. That wasn’t the point I was making. Many won’t and this will impact volunteer services NZ wide when push comes to shove.

ezbee

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#2796204 16-Oct-2021 12:46

It may not be 'many' Volunteers given the vaccinations so far are about 93% over 65s, 87% 50-54, 82% 35-49
Presuming if you got your first vaccination, you will be getting your second.
Some of the rest may just need a roundtuit to get a roundtuit.

Having it pointed out that working with vulnerable people while not being vaccinated, is not doing good, may be good enough.
Presuming Volunteers are doing this for good of others, getting vaccinated should just be an extension of same ?

At the moment we do have 'stories' of Teachers and Midwives and rinse and repeat...
Doing is something different, if they really mean it resign, until then its bluff and bluster.
My hand is... You will never know until you call my bet.

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