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GV27
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  #2797025 18-Oct-2021 12:13
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trig42:

 

Except Hipkins ruled it out last week. No wishy washy politician speak, he said it is not something being considered.

 

 

Given case numbers and weekend developments, it's not hard to imagine the advice they get this week is possibly markedly different, and may include a recommendation to actually move to L4.

 

It's easy to rule something out when no one is telling you that you need to do it, after all. 

 

But agreed, a circuit breaker roll of the dice at L4 needs to have a firm time period and possibly specific subsidies wrapped around it. 




Technofreak
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  #2797026 18-Oct-2021 12:16
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Fred99:

 

Technofreak:

 

Those people are always going to be present, so using your argument we will be in some sort of lockdown for ever. That's not logical nor sustainable.

 

 

It's also not what I've ever said / not my argument.

 

 

Considering you said this;

 

"Except for the immunocompromised / elderly, for whom the vaccine won't work well - if at all in some cases.

 

Minimising CT is the only way to save them - a couple of posters in this forum don't know that (or worse - don't care)."

 

What was/is your argument if it's not to continue with what we have now which, from your recent posts, seems to be what you want.





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cokemaster
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  #2797031 18-Oct-2021 12:20
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So regarding Fred’s molnupiravir point. That may be a completely valid reason to restrict movement of people, however it needs to be communicated to the people and communicated in an engaging manner.

You do risk pushing more people into the anti-lockdown crowd if you don’t explain your rational nor if you don’t treat the population with respect. Yes, there are a group of folks who naturally gravitate towards those groups and there might be little to sway their minds, but the last thing we want to do is push the non-extremists into that corner.

As an Aucklander who has been locked down, I want to hear the governments plan, I want the how, when and why’s. I’ve already resigned myself to November in probable level 3 step 1 or step 2 conditions… I am wanting to know what’s going to happen December…




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quickymart
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  #2797035 18-Oct-2021 12:25
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cokemaster: As an Aucklander who has been locked down, I want to hear the governments plan, I want the how, when and why’s. I’ve already resigned myself to November in probable level 3 step 1 or step 2 conditions… I am wanting to know what’s going to happen December…

 

It's not looking great, is it. My query is if schools will even get to reopen this year?


Batman

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  #2797042 18-Oct-2021 12:48
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trig42:

Except Hipkins ruled it out last week. No wishy washy politician speak, he said it is not something being considered.


I don't mind either way, but if they Level 4 Auckland, can it be:


a) on Wednesday (my wife has long awaited wrist surgery planned for tomorrow, I'd hate that to be postponed again).


b) a proper Level 4 - enforcement, punishment, and businesses closed like in the first L4 last year (this L4 was more a L3.5 - so many more businesses operating).


c) a definite time-frame with a plan of what happens at the end of it.


 


 



Yeah right. They say one thing and do the opposite. We will find out together some time between 4pm and 5pm.

before people get enraged at me again, no I didn't say they're lying, I'm saying I think they don't seem to have a plan, or if they do nobody knows what it is.

TeaLeaf
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  #2797046 18-Oct-2021 12:53
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Somebody on here said we need to try something new (I think it was Arcon)

Which is precisely what needs to happen, obviously it would be against the privacy act to target individuals, but there is nothing against smear campaigns and on the road testing and vaccinating. The smear campaign used as education for the specific regions in Auckland who clearly do not understand why we need them to change their cultural habits of extended family gatherings etc. The data pin points where, or at least it did.

We can make access to testing and vaccinating easier for those who want to, and whilst they started this advert on TV in regard to testing and why its important, its way too similar to the Alert Lvl adverts, which are imo terrible marketing once again due to being monotone and people have exhaustion from them as they typically have stated the same thing day in day out in the minds of those that have switched off due to the monotone nature of them. 

There are still plenty enough people in NZ who also dont use smart phones and or have the internet and even if they did they are more likely to land on disinformation. 

Old fashioned post box media imo is the best method along with better marketing. Been a long time since I did marketing papers at Uni but imo this has been a terribly run information aspect of handling the pandemic. The only thing that was close to effective imo was the "Covid you dik" adverts. You have to use to emotive propaganda of factual bias. Point out the fact or fiction website that dispels the disinfo for those that bit the apple and for those that simply have not seen it as impacting them so do not care, it enables them to understand why, once Auckland and or our international borders are reopened it will be dramatically impacting them and or their communities.

Along with some transparency from the Govt. Jacinda especially is not very good at politics (not saying she is not good at policy concepts), answering without an answer, using body language ie nodding a head or shaking a head while giving a fake smile or frown depending on which answer she wants, all text book 101 politics. None of that is helping and its very amateur, good politicians know when to just be transparent, much like poker, sometimes you do have to just call for the sake of keeping things on the level

1. Target demographics with information

 

2, Make accessibility to vaccination and testing much easier for those for whom it is not

 

3. Explain why it will effect those still resistant (whether due to not seeing an impact or having been disinfo'd)

4. Just tell us the why's of some things that are just not logical or reasonable (transparency for the sake of calming the outraged masses)

AKA trying something new, which is what these stats will require
COVID-19 Vaccination uptake rates within Māori communities across NZ | Ministry of Health NZ

Compared with
COVID-19 Vaccination uptake rates across NZ | Ministry of Health NZ

 

Not to say the 2nd collective map is wonderful yet either. But dose 1's are our objective if the Govt is suggesting vaccination rates are our near sole way of getting out of lockdowns etc (which personally I think is a bad message, but lets just get 1 thing correct first).

 

 


Stu

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  #2797049 18-Oct-2021 12:57
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trig42:

Pretty sure some people (who don't live in Auckland) would like the government to start digging a moat at the bottom of the Bombays.


Yes, compared to some overseas, this lockdown is nothing, but compared to the rest of NZ, it's pretty major.


~90% of people of all races, creeds, religions and backgrounds in Auckland have done the right thing and had at least one jab. What's their reward? Oh, stay at home a bit longer, the rest of the country is a bit laggard.



Covid is coming for all of us. We can't confine it to Auckland, it will escape further. Vaccines are available and very easy to get. Excuses are running out if you aren't protected.



I'm sure you're right, however I think a fair few people forget (or simply don't care) that the bottom of the Bombays (which is part of northern Waikato) is actually inside "Auckland's" southern boundary. Not a huge number of people affected, but it's not only Aucklanders in the Auckland lockdown.

Might have to move that moat a bit further south. Better make it a good one though, since there will be a fair few boat owners inside The Zone trying to get out.




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GV27
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  #2797054 18-Oct-2021 13:07
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60 cases.

 

Of today's new cases, 24 are yet to be linked to the existing outbreak.

 

Of yesterday's 51 cases, 25 were infectious in the community.

 

There are 30 cases in hospital, five of them are in ICU. 


Rikkitic
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  #2797059 18-Oct-2021 13:18
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I'm not sure it matters so much what they do, but whatever it is, it needs to be consistent and rigidly enforced. Those people staging gatherings in defiance of crowd size limits are giving the finger to the authorities to demonstrate their contempt. The ones having parties are acting like immature children, testing the boundaries to see how much they can get away with. They all need to be made examples of or they will never take any rules seriously. It isn't practical to prosecute 2,000 people attending an outdoor event, but a few can be identified and picked out. They should have the book thrown at them. Not fines, but jail. Same with the party-goers. Move in with riot police, overwhelming force, arrest the ones you can, chuck them into jail. They must not only be made examples of, they need to be seen to be made example of. Only this will make some of them start to think twice. Otherwise it is like trying to poke a hole in water. Threatening with increased penalties that are not actually enforced is just counter-productive and invites contempt.

 

 

 

 

 

 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 


TeaLeaf
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  #2797060 18-Oct-2021 13:22
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GV27:

 

60 cases.

 

Of today's new cases, 24 are yet to be linked to the existing outbreak.

 

Of yesterday's 51 cases, 25 were infectious in the community.

 

There are 30 cases in hospital, five of them are in ICU. 

 



Hipkins would never want to seem weak would he.... ;-p. Time to take politics out of this pandemic imo, especially when its doing them more harm than good politically.

 

Circuit breaker coming this arvo is my guess (obviously Im guessing)

 

If so, maybe they can answer some reasonable questions as to the "why's" while we are in a circuit breaker :-).

Got to see the funny side of life, especially in a lockdown.


TeaLeaf
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  #2797061 18-Oct-2021 13:26
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Rikkitic:

 

They all need to be made examples of or they will never take any rules seriously.

 

 

Yep. The powers influencing police decisions are clearly wanting to keep NZ conservative and not push us into riots, but the flip side is, the people abiding by the rules are the ones who appear to be becoming more and more outraged at the lack of consequences and transparency.

Id say the ones they mentioned on Saturday who organised the event will get 6 months. $4k just wont seem strong enough a statement. They will probably go lightly on the millennial female "influencer" at the party, a few $4k fines handed out etc. A guess of course, but agree there needs to be some examples for people considering doing the same in the near future.


Jas777
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  #2797066 18-Oct-2021 13:33
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A 2 week circuit breaker to slow the numbers down. But when you take it off they will just start again.

 

Meanwhile the social consequences will be increasing and increasing. As a friend of mine says a 'Poonami' is coming. A lot of 2 jabbed people in Auckland will probably have 2 weeks maybe 3 before they start to get extremely angry.

 

 


Jas777
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  #2797068 18-Oct-2021 13:36
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Rikkitic:

 

I'm not sure it matters so much what they do, but whatever it is, it needs to be consistent and rigidly enforced. Those people staging gatherings in defiance of crowd size limits are giving the finger to the authorities to demonstrate their contempt. The ones having parties are acting like immature children, testing the boundaries to see how much they can get away with. They all need to be made examples of or they will never take any rules seriously. It isn't practical to prosecute 2,000 people attending an outdoor event, but a few can be identified and picked out. They should have the book thrown at them. Not fines, but jail. Same with the party-goers. Move in with riot police, overwhelming force, arrest the ones you can, chuck them into jail. They must not only be made examples of, they need to be seen to be made example of. Only this will make some of them start to think twice. Otherwise it is like trying to poke a hole in water. Threatening with increased penalties that are not actually enforced is just counter-productive and invites contempt

 

 

Considering jail doesn't stop other offences being committed why do you think this will?

 

If you want the maximum affect you probably need to shoot a couple.


tdgeek
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  #2797070 18-Oct-2021 13:37
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TeaLeaf:

 


Hipkins would never want to seem weak would he.... ;-p. Time to take politics out of this pandemic imo, especially when its doing them more harm than good politically.

 

Circuit breaker coming this arvo is my guess (obviously Im guessing)

 

If so, maybe they can answer some reasonable questions as to the "why's" while we are in a circuit breaker :-).

Got to see the funny side of life, especially in a lockdown.

 

 

Circuit breaker will have little effect. We are here as too many people dont follow the rules, and no thats not protestors and gangs, its regular people and families who keep doing this. Circuit breaker wont stop them.

 

Politics out of the pandemic? Well, politicians aren't spreading it. It should be obvious to everyone here that people are flouting and thats been the case from day one


GV27
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  #2797088 18-Oct-2021 13:53
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The question is, would more people follow L4 rules for a short, defined period or is compliance with L3 for an indefinite period of time going to wane to the point where we might be in a functional L2? 


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