2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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Ultimate Geek

#2799851 23-Oct-2021 13:56

Dingbatt:

For the third time, you can’t discriminate against people in a universal healthcare system. Otherwise you may as well sew a Star of David on people. Other restrictions outside the health system (ie vaccine passes) are fair game to drive uptake and limit spread for those who don’t.

Is that you Sandra Goudie?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-thames-coromandel-mayor-sandra-goudie-on-why-she-refuses-the-pfizer-vaccine/5DOSACAEAU4IA4V6HQFCBDE7QI/

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cokemaster

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#2799852 23-Oct-2021 13:58

Batman:
…
Your best hope for unlocking is covid everywhere. If covid is everywhere then what's the point of locking down.

It's not that messages are mixed. They're making it up as they go along. I'm sure some of the impromptu answers to live questions are just that. Never been thought of, but give an answer.

Agreed and this absolutely shouldn’t be the case. They’ve had months upon months to develop strategies/processes/plans on how to deal with this and an army of experts in house… it shouldn’t be this way.

The problem with being on the back foot, is that you’ve now got to balance the brewing mental health/discontent in Auckland with the realities of Covid. A lot of that good will has been used up.

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GV27

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#2799853 23-Oct-2021 14:05

Jack Tame on Vaccine Certificates:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/jack-tame-vaccine-certificates-should-have-been-ready-months-ago/DT2HCZ4JXZIVGDV4F4TOMX4ZI4/

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#2799855 23-Oct-2021 14:08

We won't be called new zealand if we had everything planned months ahead. The new zealand way is she'll be right, make it up as we go along.

Geektastic

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#2799856 23-Oct-2021 14:08

Just make employment and benefits payment dependant on being vaccinated. The refuseniks will be queuing round the block by dinner.

freitasm

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#2799861 23-Oct-2021 14:23

@Dingbatt:

Otherwise you may as well sew a Star of David on people.

Locked out of this thread. Godwin and antivax arguments on the same reply.

freitasm

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#2799864 23-Oct-2021 14:28

Unvaccinated bar boss changes his mind after traffic light news | Stuff.co.nz

"I will wait for the Novavax" and "I don't agree with vaccine passports" are antivax arguments.

But them this happens:

But after the Government's announcement on Friday, which said vaccination certificates would be needed for any gatherings, Lawrenson has changed his mind and will have to get the vaccination “some time next week” so he can run his businesses.

“I don’t see how I could operate my business [without a vaccine].”

Although Lawrenson could decide to operate his venues as places you could go without having a vaccination certificate, he said, financially, it wasn’t feasible.

He had already lost about $500,000 from lockdowns this year, and under the new traffic light system, he could have a larger number of patrons in venues if vaccination certificates were required.

“As soon as you get to orange, there are no limits on hospitality gatherings at all – as long as everyone in the business is vaccinated.

“But if vaccination certificates aren’t being used, you’re limited to 50 people.”

Lawrenson said if he wanted to stay in business, he had to enforce vaccination certificates.

“Ethically, I think it’s pretty murky...but here’s the thing, if I stand with my conviction and I say ‘I’m not doing this, I’m allowing anyone into my businesses’...immediately I can't do any Factory gigs....vaccinated people can’t go to Keystone to dance. That’s not a decision I’m going to make.

Yep, hit where it hurts and people will move.

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mattwnz

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#2799865 23-Oct-2021 14:29

Dingbatt:

Good lord what’s next!

Pay for your own lung cancer treatment if you are a smoker?

Pay for your melanoma treatment if you didn’t use sunscreen?

Pay for coronary or diabetic care because you went to Maccas too often?

You are starting down a very slippery slope with that suggestion.

It was tongue in cheek because obviously it would unlikely happen in NZ. But IMO getting vaccinated is really more about helping others (the country) than yourself. There are people who could be vaccinated, who end up in hospital who maybe taking a bed from someone else for a non covid related problem who misses out. Obviously that isn't fair either, because in most cases it could have been avoided.

Vaccination is free and almost everyone can have it. It a personal choice not to, but how would you describe those people who are choosing not to get it?. So not really comparable to these things you listed. However in terms of smoking, people who smoke do pay a lot of extra tax, which does go to the health system. If one chooses to do any of these other things then they are often only damaging themselves. They aren't also more likely to get it and spread the illness, which is what happens with each unvaccinated person, and it is largely going to be an illness amongst the unvaccinated.

But who would have thought a month ago that if you want to leave Auckland to see family for Christmas you need to be vaccinated, which could be considered pretty harsh too. Or people will be forced to lose their jobs etc if they don't get vaccinated. So where is the compassion there?

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#2799866 23-Oct-2021 14:42

Auckland reaches 90% first dose, in 3 weeks (plus a few hanging on for the magical extended dose periods) it will be closing in

mattwnz

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#2799868 23-Oct-2021 14:49

tdgeek:

Auckland reaches 90% first dose, in 3 weeks (plus a few hanging on for the magical extended dose periods) it will be closing in

I hope that once 90% is reached, that first doses don't drop off. They previously said they didn't want to announce a target, because that is what they thought would happen. Apparently there are still about 150,000 eligible people in Auckland that need to have their first dose. As shown in Singapore, Ireland etc, we really need to be getting close to 100% of eligible people to reduce demand on the health system. The health system capacity is really the determining factor IMO. Getting people to get their second dose could then be the problem.

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#2799869 23-Oct-2021 14:50

Press release:

A newly-signed Order means most people working in three key sectors will very soon need to be vaccinated against COVID-19 for the sake of themselves, their workmates and their communities, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins has confirmed.

The extended COVID-19 Public Health Response (Vaccinations) Amendment Order 2021 comes into effect at 11.59pm on 25 October, requiring workers who face a high risk of exposure to COVID-19 and who work in the health and disability and education sectors or in prisons to be fully vaccinated.

“This is a significant development as our vaccination programme continues to roll out,” says Chris Hipkins.

“It’s a comprehensive Order, and will require all health and disability workers and education workers to have received their first dose of the COVID-19 vaccine by 15 November 2021.

“General practitioners, pharmacists, community health nurses, midwives, paramedics, and healthcare and disability workers in facilities where vulnerable patients are treated (including ICU), are amongst those included.

“It also covers many workers doing non-regulated healthcare work, for example providers in aged residential care and workers who enter homes to provide community support services.

“In finalising the Order, it’s been decided that it will now apply to healthcare and disability workers from 15 November, as the date when they’ll be required to have had their first dose.

“This aligns with the education sector and is a change from the 30 October date initially indicated, following feedback from the health and disability sector.

“We recognise the sector as being supportive of the mandate but we’ve listened to their views on the proposed timeline, including the potential impact on staff rosters and a desire to support all staff to meet the timeframe.

“The end result will be that both the health and disability workers and the education sector workers must be fully vaccinated by 1 January 2022.

”For those working in the education sector, the amendment applies to early childhood services as well as registered schools, including State schools, State integrated school and all private schools.

“Work is continuing on whether mandatory vaccinations will be required in the tertiary education sector.

“Prison facilities are also included and the first deadline for those workers is 6 November. In that context, the order applies to prison staff, health care staff working in prisons, psychologists (working in prisons), and many of the people contracted to provide services to prisons.

“We recognise that the health and disability, education and prison workforces have responded to the pandemic with dedication and an incredible amount of hard work and we thank them for that.

“Because of the nature of their work, these groups are all at particular risk of being infected with COVID-19, and of passing it on to the vulnerable groups they work with, as well as whānau, and members of the wider community.

“While most people in these sectors have already taken the necessary steps to protect themselves and those around them, having complete protection is critical to the country’s successful management of the pandemic.”

Notes to editors:

· Workers who only sometimes work in school, prison or health and disability environments may also be subject to the Order, and should consult the Ministry of Health’s website.
· Workers who have proof of having been vaccinated overseas with one of Medsafe’s four approved vaccines will qualify as having met the terms of the Order.
· Border workers have been required by the Order to be vaccinated since 30 September.

Dates by which workers in the different sectors will be required to be vaccinated by:

· Health and Education:

First dose – 23.59 hrs 15 November 2021
Second dose - 23.59 hrs 1 January 2022.

· Prisons:

First dose – 23.59 hrs 6 November 2021
Second dose – 23.59 hrs 8 December 2021

Oblivian

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#2799872 23-Oct-2021 15:16

Another poster child is showing us, it doesn't mean everything to have lots jabbed

A total of 18 people died from Covid in Singapore on Wednesday, a grim new record for the tiny nation of just 5.6 million.

That same day, 3862 new cases were recorded, followed by 2937 on Thursday.

Extending their hardened rules previously raised again.

GV27

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#2799877 23-Oct-2021 15:28

tdgeek:

Auckland reaches 90% first dose, in 3 weeks (plus a few hanging on for the magical extended dose periods) it will be closing in

Some parts of Auckland.

All 3 DHBs need to reach 90%. CMDHB still a way off, I think? We were 16,000 away on 1sts about three days ago and not even hitting 3K a day across the whole region.

cshwone

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#2799982 23-Oct-2021 15:48

According to https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/22-10-2021/the-spinoff-covid-tracker/ and based on MoH data there are 15070 first doses and 211138 second doses required in Auckland to get to 90% across the three DHBs. Not sure of the latest data date on that but think it was the 19th.

GV27

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#2799984 23-Oct-2021 15:50

Sounds like we've had substantial uptick in 1sts:

https://twitter.com/RCarlyleAuthor/status/1451736460982292480

While this is good, they now have to be from the right parts of Auckland in order to hit the mark - we can't just be 95-95-80.

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