Sam Morgan's Covid Card

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#2525369 18-Jul-2020 23:30

Interview starts 36:10. CovidCard discussed specifically from 40:00:

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/q-and-a/episodes/s2020-e21

My take is Fyfe is advocating this as part of improved contact tracing and testing as a prerequisite for limited and controlled exceptions to some existing restrictions. This is consistent with the discussion paper published by Glickman, Clark, and Fyfe last week.

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#2525390 19-Jul-2020 00:34

gzt: Interview starts 36:10. CovidCard discussed specifically from 40:00:

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/q-and-a/episodes/s2020-e21

My take is Fyfe is advocating this as part of improved contact tracing and testing as a prerequisite for limited and controlled exceptions to some existing restrictions. This is consistent with the discussion paper published by Glickman, Clark, and Fyfe last week.

Yip, that is how I read the discussion paper and saw the interview.

xlinknz

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#2536290 7-Aug-2020 14:57

Sam Morgan was on radionz again this morning here

Clearly he is frustrated the Govt won't commit to the card at an estimated cost of $100m...and have gone for a ($1m) pilot in Roturua and won't make a decision until the end of the year

Of note South Korea are successfully their mobile telco data to contact trace. Hopefully our govt is looking at that option too since almost everyone has a mobile that can be tracked (albeit by Police and Emergency Services)

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#2536293 7-Aug-2020 15:06

PolicyGuy:

It's effectively a location tracking ID Card in embryo, the Secret Policeman's technology-enabled wet dream.

No thanks.

You could still use the same tinfoil.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

mattwnz

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#2536297 7-Aug-2020 15:37

xlinknz:

Sam Morgan was on radionz again this morning here

Clearly he is frustrated the Govt won't commit to the card at an estimated cost of $100m...and have gone for a ($1m) pilot in Roturua and won't make a decision until the end of the year

Of note South Korea are successfully their mobile telco data to contact trace. Hopefully our govt is looking at that option too since almost everyone has a mobile that can be tracked (albeit by Police and Emergency Services)

IMO it isn't full proof. It could be a tool, but it still relies on people remembering to take a card with them and wear it, when many people now only take their phone and not even a wallet. Many people will also feel uneasy about being tracked in this way. People would still need the covid app, or record where they have actually been. So to put 100 million of taxpayers money into something that hasn't been tested in NZ wouldn't be wise imo. I wonder if the election has something to do with the timing too, because they obviously wouldn't want this to become an election issue before the election.

xlinknz

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#2536301 7-Aug-2020 15:46

mattwnz:

xlinknz:

Sam Morgan was on radionz again this morning here

Clearly he is frustrated the Govt won't commit to the card at an estimated cost of $100m...and have gone for a ($1m) pilot in Roturua and won't make a decision until the end of the year

Of note South Korea are successfully their mobile telco data to contact trace. Hopefully our govt is looking at that option too since almost everyone has a mobile that can be tracked (albeit by Police and Emergency Services)

IMO it isn't full proof. It could be a tool, but it still relies on people remembering to take a card with them, when many people now only take their phone and not even a wallet. So to put 100 million of taxpayers money into something that hasn't been tested in NZ wouldn't be wise imo. I wonder if the election has something to do with the timing too, because they obviously wouldn't want this to become an election issue before the election.

Add it has a 6 month lead time, relies on BT and as you point out requires someone to wear/carry and therefore imho the govt would be very unlikely to mandate wearing or carrying a card or that one is required to enter a premise, however if existing mobile (phone) tracing technology can used to trace people that already carry a mobile surely that is better and apparently the S Koreans are now using that approach. No app required either

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#2536311 7-Aug-2020 16:10

I'm not wearing a lanyard everywhere I go. It's a ridiculous concept.

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#2536314 7-Aug-2020 16:15

MileHighKiwi: I'm not wearing a lanyard everywhere I go. It's a ridiculous concept.

The radio interview talks to someone about stores maybe requiring people to show they have the card on them, before letting them in. I wonder how that would work out. They seem to be using the argument of whether people want to be locked down for 7 weeks, or having to wear a Covid card around which would have less restriction on peoples freedom.

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#2536321 7-Aug-2020 16:32

Given very few businesses have QR posters up and few people are using the COVID-19 app what makes anyone think everyone will suddenly get one of these and use them?

Most people already have phones, posters cost nothing to print and put up, and then as I understand it there is the probability of enhancing the app to use blue tooth and the Apple/Google tools that have already been created and put to use in some countries.

Doesn't make sense to me to be going off on some other tangent - except if you are the receiver of $100m i guess.

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#2536358 7-Aug-2020 18:12

To the naysayers, the life mitigation actions could save could be yours or family members. Carrying a card is nothing compared.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#2536431 7-Aug-2020 19:43

Yes, which is why it's important to see a solution that achieves decent uptake, which it's not clear if this is.

The question is always "could this money/time/resources/political capital be better spent elsewhere".

Civil liberties are also important. It's one thing to require a mask, it's another to require people to carry a remotely readable ID badge. Does the system make it impossible to sniff a card's ID? I can't see how it could when every other card has to read it and store it, barring some very fancy encryption.

I would not be surprised to see kit that tracks these in the same way bluetooth and WLAN MAC addresses get tracked.

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#2536444 7-Aug-2020 20:38

This is not a good solution IMO. Expensive and will see poor uptake. Better to push the existing solution (Covid Tracer) harder, or migrate to using the Apple/Google system.

Would be interesting too see if we can achieve the same as South Korea via telco data.

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#2536447 7-Aug-2020 21:06

A Covid card device on a lanyard would be quite convenient, put it under your shirt or jersey & forget about it.
Just like a swipe card for access around a big building. Perhaps people will start using the Covid tracer app if there is community transmission, but at the moment it’s a dead duck. One fast food place has the scan poster on a wall at the side of the counter. To use it you’d need to lean halfway across their counter. Needless to say a better spot is covered with advertising!

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#2536462 7-Aug-2020 21:13

antonknee:

This is not a good solution IMO. Expensive and will see poor uptake. Better to push the existing solution (Covid Tracer) harder, or migrate to using the Apple/Google system.

Would be interesting too see if we can achieve the same as South Korea via telco data.

I agree $100m for something that is not certain and where there is no current problem (i.e. no known community infection) seems premature so I can see why the Govt have taken the approach of a pilot to see if it effective and wait to see if community infection occurs whilst exploring all options.

Note Sam Morgan raised an interesting point which is he believes his system would allow open borders to open and therefore the $100m spent by the taxpayer (you and I) is a small sum compared to the value of borders opening and or possible future lock downs. My take on that is that his approach is predicated on restoring economic value by being able to successfully trace and manage community infection.

The question I would have for him is if Victoria had his system how many deaths would have been prevented if any?

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#2536467 7-Aug-2020 21:22

xlinknz:

Note Sam Morgan raised an interesting point which is he believes his system would allow open borders to open and therefore the $100m spent by the taxpayer (you and I) is a small sum compared to the value of borders opening and or possible future lock downs. My take on that is that his approach is predicated on restoring economic value by being able to successfully trace and manage community infection.

The question I would have for him is if Victoria had his system how many deaths would have been prevented if any?

Jesus. " he believes his system would allow open borders to open and therefore the $100m spent by the taxpayer (you and I) is a small sum compared to the value of borders opening and or possible future lock downs."

Yes, open the borders, this Bluetooth Tile-like card will protect your body like those anti-5G tinfoil devices.

Reality is these can be used for contact tracing but won't prevent you or I getting sick if in contact with someone. So that "small sum" will end up being quite a few people in hospital, possibly overload of beds and deaths. But hey, "is a small sum compared to the value of borders opening" and all the money people will make of that (and the cards).

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