Sam Morgan's Covid Card

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gzt

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#272814 17-Jul-2020 13:37

Morgan is looking for a government decision and estimates NZ$100 million for the first year:

RadioNZ: CovidCard is a low energy bluetooth device the size of a credit card, that is designed to be worn on a lanyard around the neck when in areas such as public transport, workplaces, bars, restaurants, gyms, hospitals, large gatherings and events.

This seems like an excellent solution although I'd like to know more about it. At this point it seems like it's not exactly required with our current elimination strategy. Things could change and maybe it's best to be prepared even at this cost. I see this as a far better solution than phones, gps and scanning. Even many preschool kids can use these.

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#2524747 17-Jul-2020 13:41

Couple of us have had input on it on the official app thread

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=161&topicid=270639&page_no=24#2524566

Bluetooth. Only good if you got all the teeth and no holes :)

PolicyGuy

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#2524801 17-Jul-2020 14:54

It's effectively a location tracking ID Card in embryo, the Secret Policeman's technology-enabled wet dream.

No thanks.

fearandloathing

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#2524804 17-Jul-2020 15:07

Ugh!

mattwnz

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#2524822 17-Jul-2020 16:00

Is this the same thing that Rob Fyfe ex air nz ceo, was going on about on TVNZs Q&A in the weekend.?

DarthKermit

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#2524825 17-Jul-2020 16:03

Why the hell would this thing cost $100 million?

gzt

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#2524828 17-Jul-2020 16:04

mattwnz: Is this the same thing that Rob Fyfe ex air nz ceo, was going on about on TVNZs Q&A in the weekend.?

Think so. Fyfe was mentioned in at least one article I read. Keen to see that interview if someone has a link

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itxtme

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#2524829 17-Jul-2020 16:05

The key problem with this concept which is not a way I have seen BLE used before (as both a beacon and receiver) is that it does not locate where anyone is, just if you have been in proximity of a specific person. This technology assumes that the only way Covid19 is transmitted is by close proximity. We know this is not true, and so you could walk into a restaurant that somebody was just at 10 seconds behind and you will never be included in the tracing. This also never shows where you actually did cross paths with a person, that would need to be worked out manually.

And none of this even touches on the fundamental issues of RSSI capture and how turning you body one way or wearing it under garments/in a specific pocket would lead to falsely including or excluding people. To me the BLE option works only if each shop has a receiver stationary in store. Thats not going to happen though..

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#2524830 17-Jul-2020 16:05

DarthKermit:
Why the hell would this thing cost $100 million?

It's a good question. Mostly for support and logistics I expect.

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#2524833 17-Jul-2020 16:09

itxtme: To me the BLE option works only if each shop has a receiver stationary in store.

I think that's the idea here. A store can use exactly the same tech as a person. A small dairy could tape one to the counter or a doorway for example. It only needs to be retrieved for analysis if there is an issue.

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#2524836 17-Jul-2020 16:13

Maybe they could just microchip everybody.

Works for cats and dogs.

(Please note this is tongue-in-cheek).

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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#2524837 17-Jul-2020 16:17

DarthKermit:
Why the hell would this thing cost $100 million?

What the hell is your costed proposal?

5 million people X $20 per person seems extremely reasonable to supply, deploy and run such a system.

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SomeoneSomewhere

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#2525262 18-Jul-2020 16:34

How does an entirely passive BLE system work? It's not RFID; you can't have a powered transceiver and a passive tag if you want to communicate tag-to-tag.

They would have to put a battery in every card, meaning they probably need to be replaced every six months or so. It's also going to be much thicker than a credit card. And you're probably coming up on that $20 per person cost for hardware alone before considering R&D - look at the cost of something like a Tile, which is essentially exactly the same hardware.

At least if you do it with an app like has been done elsewhere, you have frequent charging and hardware that is already in everyone's hands.

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#2525272 18-Jul-2020 16:51

SomeoneSomewhere:

How does an entirely passive BLE system work? It's not RFID; you can't have a powered transceiver and a passive tag if you want to communicate tag-to-tag.

They would have to put a battery in every card, meaning they probably need to be replaced every six months or so. It's also going to be much thicker than a credit card. And you're probably coming up on that $20 per person cost for hardware alone before considering R&D - look at the cost of something like a Tile, which is essentially exactly the same hardware.

At least if you do it with an app like has been done elsewhere, you have frequent charging and hardware that is already in everyone's hands.

Active BLE tags can be the size of a typical access card (i.e. a bit thicker than a credit card but not significantly).

The likely lifespan is 12 months as per the linked article.

Your price for a tile is retail, deploying 5 million+ units you get economies of scale and it's not exactly highly proprietary, you are using largely off the shelf technologies.

ezbee

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#2525277 18-Jul-2020 17:13

Singapore is testing the trace together token on seniors at the moment.
So I guess we will get some data on how well this works soon.

Singaporeans are used to having ID cards on them at all times.
Even required often to access buildings and businesses, which can lead to a 'you want my what' on your first visit.

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/vulnerable-seniors-get-first-batch-of-tracetogether-tokens

A lot more on it here this version battery life is about 6-9 months , tricky thing is that as they have to be transmitting often they will be more active than devices that spend a lot of time sleeping.

Edit: Tidy managed sentences

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#2525290 18-Jul-2020 18:37

gzt:
mattwnz: Is this the same thing that Rob Fyfe ex air nz ceo, was going on about on TVNZs Q&A in the weekend.?

Think so. Fyfe was mentioned in at least one article I read. Keen to see that interview if someone has a link

It's on TVNZ on demand

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