2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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20164 posts

Uber Geek

#2811592 12-Nov-2021 14:24

rugrat:

vexxxboy:

if the Govt wants to get vaccine numbers up in areas where they are low just leak that there is a possible covid case in the area and watch the numbers skyrocket.

I don’t agree with misinformation even if for a good cause. If it gets found out false, what else can’t they be trusted with.

If they made it clearer what is going to happen with Auckland, I.e will they be travelling the entire country coming to Christmas, that might up the urgency to get vaccinated with some people.

I know they have strongly indicated that is what is going to happen, but need to be more direct about it.

I don't think they even need to do this, covid is leaking across the border now and unvaccinated can cross it, so it is just a matter of time, and it all helps the government to get rates up and also ease the Auckland border by Christmas. IMO we shouldn't be letting it leak to try and get people vaccinated faster. Parts of Wellington have some of the highest vaccination rates in NZ but there haven't been too many covid scares in Wellington recently.

trig42

5814 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

#2811594 12-Nov-2021 14:29

Something from Nicky Hager on The Spinoff, not someone I would usually quote, but a good piece:

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/12-11-2021/nicky-hager-my-message-to-friends-who-joined-this-weeks-protest/

arcon

423 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2811595 12-Nov-2021 14:30

sbiddle:

The sad part of this is that we're realistically going to see more cases like this.

You have to give a massive amount of credit to Andrew Little for his TV interview on Wednesday where he admitted very frankly that the home isolation system is overwhelmed. It's just incredibly sad that rather than actually preparing our health system for this that the government chose to not to anything.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/11/health-minister-andrew-little-admits-home-isolation-system-wasn-t-ready-for-current-number-of-covid-cases.html

What are you implying they should have done? It takes years to increase investment to a point where ICU capacity (both beds & staff) can double to where its at Australia's level per capita. Basically they would've had to start before Covid was a threat & I can only imagine the field day their critics would've had with that kind of spending.

Purpose built MIQ was definitely possible in the time-frame before Delta, but it was not necessary if everyone just took the vaccine. Even with the slow vaccine rollout there has been plenty of time for NZ to have no problem with Delta.

The government's failure was less about lack of action & more about lack of awareness, that a significant percentage of the population are just dumb. They should've seen what was happening with antivaxers in America & it was arrogant to assume nobody here would fall for it here.

Just wait until the hospitals get overloaded - antivaxer or "critical thinkers" who are the most directly responsible for deaths will be the loudest critics.

quickymart

13963 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

#2811602 12-Nov-2021 15:02

Some good news in the fight against misinformation:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/11/sue-grey-a-lawyer-spreading-covid-19-misinformation-now-under-investigation-by-law-society.html

GV27

5897 posts

Uber Geek

#2811754 12-Nov-2021 15:19

arcon:

What are you implying they should have done? It takes years to increase investment to a point where ICU capacity (both beds & staff) can double to where its at Australia's level per capita. Basically they would've had to start before Covid was a threat & I can only imagine the field day their critics would've had with that kind of spending.

I don't want to get into the politics of things but sometimes you say a bunch of stuff about what the current government is doing when you're in opposition and end up building a rod for your own back when you're finally in power.

Standing up ICU capacity urgently is something that is hard, but you could argue we didn't even really have a crack at doing anything about it until recently - we had doctors leaving because they had no migration certainty, and we only just recently set aside space in MIQ for incoming medical personnel.

Even as recently as last month there was debate about how much ICU capacity each DHB actually had. 18 months into a pandemic and still trying to figure the actual numbers of beds in the health system is setting a pretty low bar to fail to get over.

RUKI

1402 posts

Uber Geek

#2811756 12-Nov-2021 15:28

I wonder if all people realize that the 90% number was so many times mentioned WITHOUT adding the word "of eligible population" that it could give a faulse feeling of 90 is "we almost there" I.e. It could sound as very close to 100%
However, 90% of eligible means 83.3% of total.
Assume those 3.3% are those so-called anti-vaxxers, or perhaps we should call them "people with reduced social responsibility"
and you are looking at famous 80/20 ratio. All those numerous analytics who use 80/20 in their business presentations will tell you that it is those 20% that matters most, not those 80.
That is why I think announced goal of 90% is coming from people not much experienced in life. Has to be 100% of eligible..
So easy to enfores:
Next WOF or DL or Passport renewal, next car Rego due, next IR3/IR4 due, or W&I benefit applied for or Visa or Residency application, and you are not vaccinated - you are not getting it...

vexxxboy

4244 posts

Uber Geek

#2811757 12-Nov-2021 15:29

arcon:

Just wait until the hospitals get overloaded - antivaxer or "critical thinkers" who are the most directly responsible for deaths will be the loudest critics.

thats if they can talk from hospital, because that is where the majority will be

Common sense is not as common as you think.

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sbiddle

30853 posts

Uber Geek

Retired Mod

Trusted

Biddle Corp

Lifetime subscriber

#2811758 12-Nov-2021 15:29

arcon:

sbiddle:

The sad part of this is that we're realistically going to see more cases like this.

You have to give a massive amount of credit to Andrew Little for his TV interview on Wednesday where he admitted very frankly that the home isolation system is overwhelmed. It's just incredibly sad that rather than actually preparing our health system for this that the government chose to not to anything.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/11/health-minister-andrew-little-admits-home-isolation-system-wasn-t-ready-for-current-number-of-covid-cases.html

What are you implying they should have done? It takes years to increase investment to a point where ICU capacity (both beds & staff) can double to where its at Australia's level per capita. Basically they would've had to start before Covid was a threat & I can only imagine the field day their critics would've had with that kind of spending.

Purpose built MIQ was definitely possible in the time-frame before Delta, but it was not necessary if everyone just took the vaccine. Even with the slow vaccine rollout there has been plenty of time for NZ to have no problem with Delta.

The government's failure was less about lack of action & more about lack of awareness, that a significant percentage of the population are just dumb. They should've seen what was happening with antivaxers in America & it was arrogant to assume nobody here would fall for it here.

Just wait until the hospitals get overloaded - antivaxer or "critical thinkers" who are the most directly responsible for deaths will be the loudest critics.

Did you even read the story before replying?

This is *nothing* to do with ICU. Our ICO isn't overwhelmed, and neither are our hospitals. These are people dying at home because we didn't even attempt to put processes and systems in place to cater more more than ~100-120 cases per day of home quarantine.

This is even more damning when the government are telling us current case numbers are right in the middle of their modelling as though that's a good thing. If they knew case numbers would be where they are right now and knew that a significant percentage of people would be at home isolating why are we ill prepared for the reality of this?

NZ had had close to 40 years of under investment in health but there is a lot that could have been done in the last 18 months. Unfortunately as a country we've chosen to pat ourselves on the back and tell the rest of the world how great we are and that we beat Covid rather than actually preparing for it.

mattwnz

20164 posts

Uber Geek

#2811814 12-Nov-2021 16:04

sbiddle:

This is even more damning when the government are telling us current case numbers are right in the middle of their modelling as though that's a good thing. If they knew case numbers would be where they are right now and knew that a significant percentage of people would be at home isolating why are we ill prepared for the reality of this?

NZ had had close to 40 years of under investment in health but there is a lot that could have been done in the last 18 months. Unfortunately as a country we've chosen to pat ourselves on the back and tell the rest of the world how great we are and that we beat Covid rather than actually preparing for it.

The problem is that the actual case numbers are higher than the official numbers because many people either don't know they have covid or deal with it at the time. Only becomes reported when they get really ill and need hospital treatment. NZ is 'ambulance at the bottom of the cliff' country. Its only a problem when it becomes a problem, and then they need an independent review. She'll be right.

mattwnz

20164 posts

Uber Geek

#2811816 12-Nov-2021 16:07

cshwone:

mattwnz:

I thought everyone was moving to the traffic light system anyway when the government thought vaccination rates were good enough. Just that the border would remain inplace. Just because the traffic light system exists doesn't mean that all areas will be green. Auckland will likely be red to begin with (maybe for some time according to one expert I heard)

It was only Auckland moving to the traffic lights when they got to 90%. The rest of the country would follow when all the other DHB's got to 90%. But now it looks like we will all go at the same time.

I recall one of the politicians previously saying there was going to be some leeway, so it could have been less, as the 90% number is not a magical number, and some experts are saying it actually needs to be a lot higher than this. 90% was originally a target that the media created, but the MOH when used it and called it a milestone, not a target. The government weren't wanting to set any number, because people will see it as a target, and feared once it is hit, people would then not get vaccinated.

compound

88 posts

Master Geek

#2811821 12-Nov-2021 16:42

vexxxboy:

if the Govt wants to get vaccine numbers up in areas where they are low just leak that there is a possible covid case in the area and watch the numbers skyrocket.

Out of interest are there many districts in the North Island that haven't had waste water detections and need a hurry up? What happened to the Gisborne and Napier detections? Bit hard to find waste water detection in an area that only has septic tanks.

vexxxboy

4244 posts

Uber Geek

#2811874 12-Nov-2021 16:49

compound:

vexxxboy:

if the Govt wants to get vaccine numbers up in areas where they are low just leak that there is a possible covid case in the area and watch the numbers skyrocket.

Out of interest are there many districts in the North Island that haven't had waste water detections and need a hurry up? What happened to the Gisborne and Napier detections? Bit hard to find waste water detection in an area that only has septic tanks.

Taupo is the latest one ,watch vaccine numbers rise

Common sense is not as common as you think.

FineWine

2983 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Nurse (R)

Lifetime subscriber

#2811883 12-Nov-2021 17:04

I am just waiting for my Bay of Plenty district (not Rotorua) in other words coastal side of the Kaimai's. We have 5 access roads in & out and we have been sooo lucky so far.

How much longer will our luck hold out. Tauranga hospital already has two refrigerated containers out back, just waiting.

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

mattwnz

20164 posts

Uber Geek

#2811895 12-Nov-2021 17:22

FineWine:

How much longer will our luck hold out. Tauranga hospital already has two refrigerated containers out back, just waiting.

That feels so morbid. The media in NZ really aren't showing how bad covid is going to get. I would have hoped it would shock more people into getting vaccinated.

rugrat

3107 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2811902 12-Nov-2021 17:32

https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/11/coronavirus-dhbs-funeral-homes-buy-refrigerated-containers-for-covid-19-bodies.amp.html

It’s more places then Bay of Plenty.

”The Ministry of Health's influenza pandemic plan written in 2017 warned mass fatalities could overrun services storing and disposing of bodies”

Hopefully it is a just in case, following pandemic plan written 2017, and not they know they’ll be needed.

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