2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2812301 13-Nov-2021 14:25

Benoire: The problem with these protests is that it doesnt really take many single occupant cars to gridlock the major roads/motorways in cities and towns and make it look worse than it is, i.e. 10,000 people out protesting would grid lock a large proportion of the city but represents a miniscule fraction of the population.

Is it that many? The linked article counts 200 cars leaving Destiny Church in Wiri, South Auckland.

rugrat

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#2812303 13-Nov-2021 14:27

Benoire:

The problem with these protests is that it doesnt really take many single occupant cars to gridlock the major roads/motorways in cities and towns and make it look worse than it is, i.e. 10,000 people out protesting would grid lock a large proportion of the city but represents a miniscule fraction of the population. Would like the media to actually report the actual number of cars causing the gridlock and show it as a percentage as that would put it in to perspective.

From article it just mentions dozens of cars in Auckland one. Doesn’t sound like for traffic blocking it is in the thousands.

Also “Motorists driving too slowly and/or blocking traffic can be fined $150 and receive 20 demerit points.”

Wonder how many will get fined if any?

I don’t know if this link has been posted, but will post so know what I’m referring to.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300453691/covid19-antilockdown-protesters-take-to-roads-for-latest-action-against-restrictions

gzt

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#2812304 13-Nov-2021 14:28

Irony..

Article: The Freedoms & Rights Coalition protest group had earlier proposed a "Great Gridlock" of slow-moving vehicles to block traffic across several New Zealand cities.

Benoire

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#2812305 13-Nov-2021 14:29

gzt:
Benoire: The problem with these protests is that it doesnt really take many single occupant cars to gridlock the major roads/motorways in cities and towns and make it look worse than it is, i.e. 10,000 people out protesting would grid lock a large proportion of the city but represents a miniscule fraction of the population.

Is it that many? The linked article counts 200 cars leaving Destiny Church in Wiri, South Auckland.

I have no idea how many, I was indicating from my experience as a transport designer how many cars it would take to grid lock auckland given the 7500km of road network across Auckland...

Geektastic

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#2812308 13-Nov-2021 15:01

To borrow from Mark Twain:

Let us be thankful for the fools. But for them the rest of us could not succeed!

Scott3

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#2812309 13-Nov-2021 15:04

Batman:

Conversation with antivax ...

Don't want AZ, want Sinovac.

Anybody else hear the same? ie is this the new cult directive or personal decision.

It's not new. For a while only china made vaccines were going to be accepted for travel into china, and journalists were trying to put political pressure on the NZ government to offer it:

https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/03/19/china-signals-its-exploring-the-possibility-of-introducing-its-covid-19-vaccines-to-nz/

And of course there are those that have a preference for an inactivated type vaccine, over other technologies like mRNA.

In Singapore 85,000 people paid for sinovac despite having free access to western mRNA vaccines:

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/health-environment/article/3146944/covid-19-singapore-residents-who-took-sinovac-turn

That said, wanting sinovac is pritty weird in my mind.

Have in laws in the Philippines where multiple vaccines are used, and sinovac is the most widely available. Pritty well accepted that sinovac is at or near the bottom of the list in terms of desirability. People would literally rush to vaccine centers known to have western vaccines.

Re sinovac the issues are the below:

Effectiveness against infection is accepted as being lower than the likes of pfizer. - Only 50.4% in the Brazil clinical trial. LINK. Know of several sinovac people (across two households) in my extended family who got covid-19 despite being fully vaccianted with sinovac. Some got quite sick too, but none needed hospital care (unlike the one person in the same household who was underage so couldn't be be vaccianted).
Side effects my brother & sister got from sinovac were a lot worse and our pfizer side effects. They both had vomiting & one had heart palpitations. Scary stuff in a location where hospital care was largely unavailable due to covid-19 load.
Concerns about what countries would accept it for international travel. For a period of time Saudi Arabia was not accepting sinovac under its inbound travel vaccine requirements. (should note NZ is accepting basically any covid-19 vaccine approved anywhere in the world.).

cokemaster

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#2812310 13-Nov-2021 15:05

Health concerns regarding these protests aside, yes blocking traffic on motorways at peak times is extremely effective… but if your goal is to win hearts and minds, it is not effective at all.

Impacted folks will just think the protesters are a bunch of donkeys and turkeys (if they don’t already think that).

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FineWine

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#2812315 13-Nov-2021 15:39

SJB:

Oblivian:

West Coast and Bay of Plenty DHBs do not have morgues - instead, they rely on storage at funeral businesses.

Bay of Plenty DHB bought and blessed two refrigerated containers last year to prepare for Covid-19 fatalities - one is at Whakatāne Hospital and the other in Tauranga.

They are the ones with the sign in large letters on the side -

People who are unvaccinated should wait inside. Refreshments will be provided.

Don't know about the refreshments but you certainly get a free name tag, sleeping bag and great cool air-conditioning. 🥶

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

Reanalyse

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#2812333 13-Nov-2021 16:40

The problem with these protests is that it doesnt really take many single occupant cars to gridlock the major roads/motorways in cities and towns and make it look worse than it is, i.e. 10,000 people out protesting would grid lock a large proportion of the city but represents a miniscule fraction of the population.
Is it that many? The linked article counts 200 cars leaving Destiny Church in Wiri, South Auckland.

I have no idea how many, I was indicating from my experience as a transport designer how many cars it would take to grid lock auckland given the 7500km of road network across Auckland...

Well they caused gridlock on the motorway, only takes three cars side by side at 50km on the motorway to do that. And from the news articles the police as usual "took lots of pictures" but apparently no other consequences for Destiny (or should it be renamed Destructive) Church on the day.

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#2812336 13-Nov-2021 16:49

Purely conjecture here: I wonder if the reason why police haven’t been more hands on, is because they don’t want to conjure up imagery akin to the South African tours or the Australian Covid protests.

I suspect that it’s because they don’t want to be seen “throwing the first punch” which is why they stand their ground on the border but act like tourists at protests.

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quickymart

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#2812344 13-Nov-2021 17:29

Oblivian: It's Saturday. I didn't see the government overthrown. Anyone else? That was their deadline

Clearly the end of the week however if people are out protesting again huh. Seems it's weekly now after all

I wonder if they'll just be like QAnon, just picking yet another random date in the future, and it will become "oh, this time, it's so the date it's going to happen!"...and then it never does. Nor the next time. Nor the next time.
Seriously, this was nothing but a waste of petrol, achieved nothing and I hope it was soundly ignored by the Goverment.

Maybe all these idiots would like to actually catch this deadly virus? I think they would sing a different tune then.

Yes, lockdowns are frustrating, but I don't want to see us end up like the US - I have family over there. One relative says she knows of 5 people who had caught coronavirus. By contrast, I know 0.

Benoire

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#2812358 13-Nov-2021 18:03

quickymart:

Oblivian: It's Saturday. I didn't see the government overthrown. Anyone else? That was their deadline

Clearly the end of the week however if people are out protesting again huh. Seems it's weekly now after all

I wonder if they'll just be like QAnon, just picking yet another random date in the future, and it will become "oh, this time, it's so the date it's going to happen!"...and then it never does. Nor the next time. Nor the next time.
Seriously, this was nothing but a waste of petrol, achieved nothing and I hope it was soundly ignored by the Goverment.

Maybe all these idiots would like to actually catch this deadly virus? I think they would sing a different tune then.

Yes, lockdowns are frustrating, but I don't want to see us end up like the US - I have family over there. One relative says she knows of 5 people who had caught coronavirus. By contrast, I know 0.

Well it was additional used petrol so more for the road safety programmes across Auckland which will be great as more money is needed to tackle the DSIs on the road network, so I guess that's a plus?

Batman

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#2812359 13-Nov-2021 18:04

found something stupid, which is quite dumb i reckon

Definitions: Deceased:

Includes all cases that died who were classified as an active case of COVID-19 at the time of death. In some of these cases, the underlying cause of death may have been unrelated to COVID-19.

Presumably we counted this as a covid death. No wonder people are so suspicious at covid deaths

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300451032/new-lynn-homicide-man-senselessly-shot-dead-outside-motel-had-covid19

Benoire

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#2812360 13-Nov-2021 18:33

Batman:

found something stupid, which is quite dumb i reckon

Definitions: Deceased:

Includes all cases that died who were classified as an active case of COVID-19 at the time of death. In some of these cases, the underlying cause of death may have been unrelated to COVID-19.

Presumably we counted this as a covid death. No wonder people are so suspicious at covid deaths

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300451032/new-lynn-homicide-man-senselessly-shot-dead-outside-motel-had-covid19

I believe this is the WHO definition used by many countries including the UK, which has raised similar comments. Personally I think we need to seperate deaths in to:

1) directly caused by Covid-19 e.g. Pneumonia and organ failure while suffering from covid-19

2) Indirectly caused by Covid 19 e.g. has tested positive for covid in the past and died of an issue that could be related to covid but wasn't positive at the time, e.g. organs that can be damaged by covid have failed etc.

3) Not caused by Covid-19 e.g. traffic accidents, gun violence etc.

I'm not sure the amount of work for the corroners to do this and I wonder whether we'll see reclassifications once the official cause of death is determined in due course.

Batman

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#2812364 13-Nov-2021 18:40

interestingly this says

"Singapore sticks rigidly to the WHO’s case definition for classifying COVID-19 deaths. It does not include non-pneumonia fatalities like those caused by blood or heart issues among COVID-19 patients in its official tally."

https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-singapore-explainer-idUSKBN2680TF

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