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Sup

Sup
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  #2815483 19-Nov-2021 00:59
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I was reading a herald article tonight someone posted on another forum about the Black Power taking a lead in Covid protection of their group. I am amazed that someone was forward thinking enough, to allow a Doctor to certificate some Gang members in the taking of Covid swabs. They are also hosting a massive vaccine drive for their members in Manurewa.

 

I worked a lot with Gangs before I retired, in the health sector (in a normal job, common health role, I am not pro porting to be a Covid expert).

 

What impresses me most about this scheme, is that we may now for the first time see some of the likely hundreds of invisible cases. The people who through this whole thing, have been spreading it, and were never going to come forward.

 

By training the Gang, they are empowering them to buy into the Covid response message and as I say, give us a snapshot of what is really happening, in the Methamphetamine underground with Covid and its many drug routes across the country, which people have been using during lock down and therefore spreading the virus.

 

Also, the open invitation to all Gangs to get involved I hope will be taken up by the hierarchy, unfortunately we are talking a pretty big reservoir for disease with no meaningful public health interface....the kind of perfect storm....that sunk the Delta elimination campaign....eight cases...only eight linked cases....then a woman shows up at Middlemore from what sounds like a domestic violence related story....self discharges....is later found by police at the Gang pad in Takanini....boom....Delta wins....eradication ends.

 

From there as we all know it spread like wildfire into the homeless and mentally ill population groups....highly mobile...very limited health interface...game over. The tale of a pandemic...one day someone will make the movie.





Just keep swimming...




Batman

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  #2815488 19-Nov-2021 07:20
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MileHighKiwi:
tdgeek:
I'd consider cases of 2000+ daily to be massive. If its not, then maybe our daily cases shouldn't even make the news?


When you consider that around 1,960 of those cases will be asymptomatic or mild, it shouldn't make the news at all. Instead we have red breaking news banners across the media for 1 case letalone 2k, which just freaks people out and drives the hysteria.



 

Imagine if during (a typical pre Covid) winter we had daily news updates reporting the number of people in NZ who were suffering from influenza like symptoms - which can top out at around 5,000 reported cases per week during winter.

 

 


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  #2815489 19-Nov-2021 07:33
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Scott3:

 

On Novavax, it got an emergency use approval in the Philippines yesterday. (And it already has the same for Indonesia).

 

https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/news/philippine-fda-eua-novavax-vaccine/

 

 

 

For the vax-hesitant, The fact it hasn't been in use long enough for rare side effects to be identified, and hit the media, may mean it is portrayed as the safest as all vaccines.

 

 

 

Personally I would be keen for it for my booster. But I doubt it will be available when I become eligible for that in January.

 

I still consider it the dark horse of covid-19 vaccines due to early stage trials showing it preventing the growth of the virus in primates noses. - So it has the (unproven in human trials) potential to be the best vaccine at slowing transmission of the virus.

 

 

I know we've both posted a lot about Novavax in this thread in the past. It's something I still have faith in (I never sold my shares and collected by gains during the recent peak and now it's tanked so I hope they can deliver!) but what is missing now is good real world data on it's effectiveness against Delta. Obviously some of the data being given to countries who are making decisions on it's use hasn't yet been published online for review.

 

Reading a few stories this morning and in recent days the acceleration of AY 4.2 spread in the UK is starting to ramp up even against Delta. The good news at least is it seems now that while this is far more transmissible than even Delta is, that it's not causing anywhere near the same symptoms. This creates the scenario that many who are testing positive in surveillance testing are asymptomatic, which in itself is both good and bad.

 

 

 

 


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  #2815506 19-Nov-2021 07:54
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Highly transmissible and rather harmless is a good thing!

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  #2815524 19-Nov-2021 08:23
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Imagine something like this going wild. With modern misinformation things could be bad quickly: Vials Labeled ‘Smallpox’ Are Found in Pennsylvania Laboratory - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

 

 

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is investigating the discovery of vials that are labeled “smallpox” at a laboratory in Pennsylvania, the health agency said on Thursday.

 

The frozen vials “were incidentally discovered by a laboratory worker while cleaning out a freezer in a facility that conducts vaccine research in Pennsylvania,” Belsie González, a spokeswoman for the C.D.C., said in an email on Thursday.

 

She added that the C.D.C. was working with law enforcement officials to investigate the vials. The agency said the vials appeared to be intact.

 

“The laboratory worker who discovered the vials was wearing gloves and a face mask,” she said. “There is no indication that anyone has been exposed to the small number of frozen vials. We will provide further details as they are available.”

 





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cruxis
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  #2815549 19-Nov-2021 08:55
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freitasm:

 

Imagine something like this going wild. With modern misinformation things could be bad quickly: Vials Labeled ‘Smallpox’ Are Found in Pennsylvania Laboratory - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

 

 

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is investigating the discovery of vials that are labeled “smallpox” at a laboratory in Pennsylvania, the health agency said on Thursday.

 

The frozen vials “were incidentally discovered by a laboratory worker while cleaning out a freezer in a facility that conducts vaccine research in Pennsylvania,” Belsie González, a spokeswoman for the C.D.C., said in an email on Thursday.

 

She added that the C.D.C. was working with law enforcement officials to investigate the vials. The agency said the vials appeared to be intact.

 

“The laboratory worker who discovered the vials was wearing gloves and a face mask,” she said. “There is no indication that anyone has been exposed to the small number of frozen vials. We will provide further details as they are available.”

 

 

 

Housing crisis solved?


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  #2815614 19-Nov-2021 10:41
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An anti vaxxer mate says its crazy that they fire teachers who are anti vax but will allow anti vax parents to go to the school. Whats the answer to that?


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  #2815616 19-Nov-2021 10:46
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tdgeek:

 

An anti vaxxer mate says its crazy that they fire teachers who are anti vax but will allow anti vax parents to go to the school. Whats the answer to that?

 

 

it's crazy!

 

Edit:  ie. crazy that they will be allowed into school events and classes etc (rather than simply to "go to the school' - initially missed that subtlety in the above)

 

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/456045/allowing-unvaccinated-parents-into-school-events-classes-ridiculous

 

 


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  #2815620 19-Nov-2021 10:55
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DS248:

 

tdgeek:

 

An anti vaxxer mate says its crazy that they fire teachers who are anti vax but will allow anti vax parents to go to the school. Whats the answer to that?

 

 

it's crazy!

 

Edit:  ie. crazy that they will be allowed into school events and classes etc (rather than simply to "go to the school' - initially missed that subtlety in the above)

 

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/456045/allowing-unvaccinated-parents-into-school-events-classes-ridiculous

 

 

 

 

I wasnt sure what or if anything was in place, saw it as the same as supermarkets perhaps. I gues sit depends where the line is drawn. We can't stop access to food, so can we stop access to kids education?


 
 
 

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  #2815624 19-Nov-2021 11:03
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Sup:

 

Agreed, a lot of people have pinned their anti Pfizer colours to the mast and this affords some, a way out. Good news about authorization, I hope the Filipino folk accept the Novavax, that country has been absolutely bombarded by the global antivaxx movement. It is a mess.

 

 

I agree with most of the stuff you have been saying, but think the comment regarding the Philippines is wide of the mark. My in laws are based in manila.

 

The major constraint in the Philippines is vaccine availability. For whatever reason, vaccine procurement didn't go to well for the Philippines so they have been very constrained on doses, Especially doses from western maunfacturers.

 

Vaccines doses have been aggressively prioritised towards the National Capital Region (Greater Manila). 92.12% of eligible population in the NCR are now fully vaccinated (Source) Compared to something like 42% nation wide.

 

Of course there are some anti-vax people in the Philippines, but they are few and far between. Most people in the Philippines personally know at least one person that has died from covid-19, and many people that have been sick with the virus. (in my realities case, they know a person that died in the waiting area / Triage room, waiting for admission to an overloaded hospital - and that person was well connected which means a lot in the Philippines). People are desperate to get vaccinated.

 

There is quite a strong pecking order in preference for vaccines. Generally Pfizer & Moderna being most desirable, then Astra Zenica, and with Sinovax & Sputnik at the bottom.

 

Had to talk my mother in law out of waiting for pfizer when Astra Zenica became available to her.

 

 

 

A lot of the concern about the non western vaccines early on was not actually medically based, but steamed from concern if those brands would be accepted for international travel (a lot of Philippine's aspire to work overseas). A fairly genuine concern given Saudi wasn't accepting sinovac for a period.  Somewhat reduced now that sinovac has been approved by the WHO.

 

 

 

Regarding sinovac, antidotes from my extended family do somewhat confirm the data that the vaccine is not as good as the western ones. Brother & Sister in law both had harsh side effects, including vomiting. Two households in my extended family have had breakthrough infections in people vaccinated with sinovac. One of those households the infection cut through the entire households and they got pritty sick too, but only the person who was ineligiable for vaccination due to age ended up in hospital.

 

 

 

For Philippines the biggest advantage to approving Novavax is merely to get their hands on more doses. The fact it is a highly effective western vaccine, and doesn't need ultracold storage is simply iceing on the cake.

 

 

 

 

 

Batman: Highly transmissible and rather harmless is a good thing!

 

Absolutely. If the properties are correct it could be pandemic ending. 

 

 

 

Engineering a such a strain would be the obvious futuristic way to get on top of a pandemic. Take the pathogens genetic code, tweak it to be more transmissible, and less harmful than the original, but still close enough to give some immunity from the original strain. Then all that has to be done is release it. - It will quickly become the dominant strain, and become widespread. Functioning as an airborne vaccine and eliminating the limitations of a injection based vaccine roll out.

 

Of course there is is risk that manufactured pathogen mutates to be both highly transmittable & harmfull, so it is something to approach with serious caution.


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  #2815625 19-Nov-2021 11:04
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Storm and Teacup ? Classic false equivalence ?

 

If schools are being sensible and not having events or classes where parents would be.
Then a specific 'rule' is probably not needed.

 

I don't think any school allows parents to go randomly into classes whenever they want.
So restriction of access already exists for protection of all, for other obvious reasons. 

 

While assuming common sense is perhaps going a bit far these days.

 

Indeed one school was reported putting a generic sign at entrance asking unvaccinated Adults not to enter.
They can  manage exceptions, where a parent has to meet with a teacher on case by case.


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  #2815630 19-Nov-2021 11:11
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DS248:

 

tdgeek:

 

An anti vaxxer mate says its crazy that they fire teachers who are anti vax but will allow anti vax parents to go to the school. Whats the answer to that?

 

 

it's crazy!

 

Edit:  ie. crazy that they will be allowed into school events and classes etc (rather than simply to "go to the school' - initially missed that subtlety in the above)

 

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/456045/allowing-unvaccinated-parents-into-school-events-classes-ridiculous

 

 

From that article (emphasis mine):

 

"The ministry said its guidance to schools recommended they treat all parents and caregivers as unvaccinated.

 

"Schools should consider not allowing non-essential visitors on site at alert level 3. At alert level 2 we strongly recommend that large events and activities do not take place, including those that bring parents and caregivers onsite," it said."

 

So while schools are free to make their own decisions, there is a pretty clear recommendation.

 

I assume that most schools in covid-19 hit area's are doing like my childs kindy. Parents not to enter the site. Drop off and Pick up at the gate.


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  #2815631 19-Nov-2021 11:11
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ezbee:

 

Storm and Teacup ? Classic false equivalence ?

 

If schools are being sensible and not having events or classes where parents would be.
Then a specific 'rule' is probably not needed.

 

I don't think any school allows parents to go randomly into classes whenever they want.
So restriction of access already exists for protection of all, for other obvious reasons. 

 

While assuming common sense is perhaps going a bit far these days.

 

Indeed one school was reported putting a generic sign at entrance asking unvaccinated Adults not to enter.
They can  manage exceptions, where a parent has to meet with a teacher on case by case.

 

 

But that's too much common sense for an anti vaxxer to accept. Im actaully wondering if there is such a thing as an anti vaxxer, they all seem to be anti establishment, anti authority, yet they don't seem to be fazed by getting a passport to travel or a licence to drive, or being "forced" to wear suitable attire at an event that has a dress code. Cherry picking


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