2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2818947 25-Nov-2021 06:38

Overseas Kiwis complaining that Aucklanders do not have to isolate upon arrival but they do may find people aren't that receptive to that argument, given the stonkingly high vaccination rates within Auckland and the fact we've been locked down for something like 100 days now.

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#2818948 25-Nov-2021 06:48

mattwnz:
The question is how many tourists are we going to have. Some will require hospitalization for Covid. Some may use precious ICU beds, and it appears once people go into ICU, they can be in there for a long time. NZ does seem to have a significant number of tourists compared to our population, which is partly because tourism (both local and international tourists) is such a big part of the NZ economy. IMO we should be pivoting away from this reliance.

Should have invested some of the billions handed out, into health!

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#2818949 25-Nov-2021 06:50

ajobbins: It would actually be safer to have inbound travellers quarantine and get a PCR test at day 2 or 3, then end isolation when they get a negative result. And would likely mean less time in iso as you'd get a result within a day or two.

That actually is the most sensible thing I've heard all week!

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#2818950 25-Nov-2021 06:52

Meanwhile paid holiday for some it seems?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/government-finalises-massive-expansion-of-social-safety-net-funded-by-1-2-per-cent-tax-hike/JDAAHU563GDIYFOEV2KI7WFYLY/

Handle9

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#2818959 25-Nov-2021 07:30

GV27:
Overseas Kiwis complaining that Aucklanders do not have to isolate upon arrival but they do may find people aren't that receptive to that argument, given the stonkingly high vaccination rates within Auckland and the fact we've been locked down for something like 100 days now.

Does a long lockdown reduce the rate of infection?

The risk posed by Aucklanders is far higher than the risk posed by me flying from the UAE. We have much higher vaccination rates and much lower case numbers than Auckland.

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#2818961 25-Nov-2021 07:33

Scott3:

Sup:

I cannot see a reason for GPs not to do booster shots. The restriction at the start was due to the Govt wanting control, in part due to supply and in part related to total control of the supply chain to understand the logistics in preparation for higher numbers.

One of the issues with smaller practices are multi dose vials. Once diluted, the 6 dose vial has a 6 hour expiry time, after which unused doses need to be discarded. Could lead to high wastage if many super low volume clinics offered it, which would not be ethical given the global shortage of vaccines remains.

Once we have the actual boosters here from March with the new tris buffer (rather than the current vaccine supply which we will be using for boosters up until then) things could well change because the new storage requirements for the booster and pediatric vaccine are a game changer in that respect.

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#2818969 25-Nov-2021 08:01

@sbiddle the WHO is calling for a moratorium on the issuing of boosters in order to reserve them.

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#2818971 25-Nov-2021 08:09

MikeB4: @sbiddle the WHO is calling for a moratorium on the issuing of boosters in order to reserve them.

The same WHO that's been behind the eight ball for most of this pandemic?

The biggest problem for many 3rd world countries (and I'll include most of Africa in this even though not every country fits that category) is no longer vaccine supply, it's the issues with distribution and the willingness for people to actually be vaccinated. Many of the people in many of these countries have never received a vaccine in their whole life.

GV27

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#2818973 25-Nov-2021 08:13

Handle9:

Does a long lockdown reduce the rate of infection?

The risk posed by Aucklanders is far higher than the risk posed by me flying from the UAE. We have much higher vaccination rates and much lower case numbers than Auckland.

As someone has pointed out, already, cases (and therefore risks) are cumulative. The risk presented by Kiwis living overseas is in addition to the risk presented by Kiwis living here.

I mean, are people expecting Aucklanders to go "Oh, cool, prioritise external inwards migration over internal movement because we stopped containing an outbreak Auckland is only dealing with because we shouldered most of the MIQ burdern, makes total sense".

If we have limited resources to weight against the risk presented by people moving around NZ are going to get the first crack at it.

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#2818981 25-Nov-2021 08:40

Oblivian:

Talk about the mandates vs safety etc egg shells..

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/covid-19-delta-outbreak-unvaccinated-airport-worker-gets-interim-reinstatement-after-dismissal/QH5QRIQWDN5FYY6K2BPIOJ434U/

He also raised a number of issues as to the efficacy of the Pfizer/BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine (Pfizer vaccine), which he described as "experimental" including whether that vaccine was an "experimental mRNA gene-altering therapy".

Bullshit antivaxxer. The judge should've turned around and asked the person to provide an expert opinion backed by the Ministry of Health, not by your wellness chiropractor keto yoga cult leader.

Scott3

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#2818988 25-Nov-2021 09:04

Sup:

All relevant issues thanks.

We could see a situation where influenza deaths far exceed Covid, the same is true for demand for hospital care, that is assuming we maintain the high degree of compliance with boosters as per the rates we are seeing now with the full course.

Longer term if Covid shots become annual the drives would do both shots in one hit for the eligible population hey.

I am hoping that out of this current tech wave in the vaccine space that we see second and third generation vaccines that find the holy grail, lasting immunity for a range of diseases like the Flu and a pan Corona virus vaccine.

High ideals but hey, who would have thought we could design products this effective, this quickly.

Sadly any tech breakthrough on flu vaccines isn't going to come in time for next winter.

That said, it is probable in the next few years. Novavax has a flu vaccine candidate that far outperforms our current one, but they are yet to bring it to market.

Underlying to all this, is that the influenza vaccine dosn't offer very good coverage compared to the covid-19 vaccines. Likely there will be flu strains here next winter that are not covered by the vaccine.

Facing Covid-19 + Influenza + RSV + seasonal colds next winter will test our health system like never before.

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#2818992 25-Nov-2021 09:09

sbiddle:

Once we have the actual boosters here from March with the new tris buffer (rather than the current vaccine supply which we will be using for boosters up until then) things could well change because the new storage requirements for the booster and pediatric vaccine are a game changer in that respect.

Regarding "tris buffer". I understand this to be the new Pfizer formulation, rather than something specific to primary doses or boosters. Correct it does offer storage advantages. Not sure how it impacts the life of diluted doses, but even being able to keep a half used vial overnight would add heaps of flexibility for small to medium medical centers and pharmacies.

https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-020421619563

[edit] - not sure when we get the new formulation here. FDA has approved the new formulation for people 12+, And I understand that 5-11 formulation already included "tris buffer"

We currently have around 2.6m doses in the freezer, or 130 days at current demand (opening up boosters may use it up faster), so there will be some lag between a new formulation being approved, and us getting to use it, with out stockpile being managed in a First in first out basis.

compound

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#2819020 25-Nov-2021 10:03

Sup:

We could see a situation where influenza deaths far exceed Covid, the same is true for demand for hospital care, that is assuming we maintain the high degree of compliance with boosters as per the rates we are seeing now with the full course.

Longer term if Covid shots become annual the drives would do both shots in one hit for the eligible population hey.

I am hoping that out of this current tech wave in the vaccine space that we see second and third generation vaccines that find the holy grail, lasting immunity for a range of diseases like the Flu and a pan Corona virus vaccine.

High ideals but hey, who would have thought we could design products this effective, this quickly.

Hopefully the Ministry of Health is sorted now with saying you can get the flu and covid shots at the same time since back in April they required a 2 week gap between vaccines.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/300264392/covid19-can-i-get-the-covid-vaccine-and-the-flu-jab-at-the-same-time

Sup

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Ultimate Geek

#2819029 25-Nov-2021 10:28

MikeB4: @sbiddle the WHO is calling for a moratorium on the issuing of boosters in order to reserve them.

The Who are correct. The global roll out should have taken precedence over the wealthy countries booster program. And the West should take responsibility for the Antivaxx issue and move as Austria has, to mandating vaccines for all, thus pursuing an elimination approach that is realistic rather than this current never ending madness.

There is certainly a lot of fat that could be trimmed from the Wests wasted unused vaccines.

Some of the strategic over pre ordering of vaccines has been ridiculous, yes I understand some of these orders get redirected to other countries when the OECD does not need all of the vaccines.

In a practical and sensible world, people would get vaccinated at almost 99.999% uptake and in a timely fashion.

The Antivaxxers have so many down stream harmful effects on the fight against the global pandemic, as we know Govts sit on stock piles waiting for these selfish individuals to change their mind.

In the meantime, the so called third world left untreated, becomes a hot house for the next mutation, and we respond to this by saying to ourselves....well lets hope not.

Lets hope not is not a viable nor scientific way to approach Covid 19.

Austria have taken the first sensible step in addressing the pandemic by mandating vaccines.It is very clear, that we cannot watch this picture for the next decade, and expect the status quo to continue. Four waves in two years, with no strategic plan to tackle the wave phenomena unilaterally on a global scale. All this while ignoring the elephant in the room, the potential for the mutation mechanism to throw out a vaccine resistant strain that is more problematic than the Beta variant in terms of resistance.

Pfizer have announced an intention to build vaccine plants in Africa for Africa's exclusive use. The criticism of this plan includes Africa not being able to export the vaccine and therefore generate profits for Africa.

However on site production is better than nothing....even if we are talking years to be fully operational and completed.

New Zealand should look at this option also, building a facility. We would need to add to that the $110 million dollar cost of running trials of locally developed products. Peanuts compared to what we are spending on places like Tiwai Point smelter and Marsden point.

The new think big is in vaccine development. We have the people to design vaccines. We have the people to operate a facility, and we can see that supply cannot keep up with demand in this field and that these pandemics are landing in four to eight year cycles.

Just keep swimming...

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#2819049 25-Nov-2021 11:17

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/127085548/supreme-court-rejects-exceptional-basis-for-health-professionals-and-teachers-no-jab-no-job-appeal

Excellent. Maybe they'll get over themselves now and just get the frikken' vaccine!

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