Cycle Helmets, Yes or No?

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#1985280 29-Mar-2018 10:05

MikeAqua:

tdgeek:

Quite right. My own post wasn't very clear. What I meant was cyclists don't pay directly as they don't pay rego or fuel taxes. But they dont wear out the roads, and they do reduce congestion so in some ways they help the road wear. But as per my previous link there is a hate by motorists to cyclists as far as more cycle ways appearing has raised.

On well designed road system cyclists ease congestion. In badly designed systems (e.g Island Bay) they can cause congestion including holding up buses.

Out of interest how do they hold up buses?

E3xtc

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#1985298 29-Mar-2018 10:33

tdgeek:

Out of interest how do they hold up buses?

When they share the bus lane...eg if congestion, then the bus cannot move sideways to go around the cyclist if needed.

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#1985301 29-Mar-2018 10:42

E3xtc:

tdgeek:

Out of interest how do they hold up buses?

When they share the bus lane...eg if congestion, then the bus cannot move sideways to go around the cyclist if needed.

Ok. You can look at this a few ways

They are using the road, so they have a right to be on that road, just like cars have a right to be on the road and if its congested, its congested

The reality is its people transporting themselves on the road. By car, bus, motorbike, or cycle

You could say what if these cycles were replaced with a car each? Thats also congestion. But to be fair, some might take that bus instead and remove themselves from the equation.

Are they always in single file or often two by two?

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#1985407 29-Mar-2018 13:55

tdgeek:

Ok. You can look at this a few ways

They are using the road, so they have a right to be on that road, just like cars have a right to be on the road and if its congested, its congested

The reality is its people transporting themselves on the road. By car, bus, motorbike, or cycle

You could say what if these cycles were replaced with a car each? Thats also congestion. But to be fair, some might take that bus instead and remove themselves from the equation.

Are they always in single file or often two by two?

On some roads, buses (and cars can't overtake cyclists. Because the bike is slower than the bus, it holds up the bus. This can then cause congestion that otherwise wouldn't occur. A single moped, motorbike or car wouldn't cause the same issue because they are faster.

Regardless of who has right to be where ... one person holding up ~25 people is a poor transport outcome. A couple of dozen cars stuck behind a cyclist crawling up a hill is a poor transport outcome. It's a road design issue.

IMO it's preferable from a congestion perspective for people to use mass transit wherever practical. If all the people who currently commute by car in Wellington switched to bikes there would be horrendous congestion. You would need completely different road designs.

Mike

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#1985416 29-Mar-2018 14:08

MikeAqua:

tdgeek:

Ok. You can look at this a few ways

They are using the road, so they have a right to be on that road, just like cars have a right to be on the road and if its congested, its congested

The reality is its people transporting themselves on the road. By car, bus, motorbike, or cycle

You could say what if these cycles were replaced with a car each? Thats also congestion. But to be fair, some might take that bus instead and remove themselves from the equation.

Are they always in single file or often two by two?

On some roads, buses (and cars can't overtake cyclists. Because the bike is slower than the bus, it holds up the bus. This can then cause congestion that otherwise wouldn't occur. A single moped, motorbike or car wouldn't cause the same issue because they are faster.

Regardless of who has right to be where ... one person holding up ~25 people is a poor transport outcome. A couple of dozen cars stuck behind a cyclist crawling up a hill is a poor transport outcome. It's a road design issue.

IMO it's preferable from a congestion perspective for people to use mass transit wherever practical. If all the people who currently commute by car in Wellington switched to bikes there would be horrendous congestion. You would need completely different road designs.

Road designs in a nutshell. And invariably no room for a cycleway, otherwise they would have done that. Rock and a hard place type of thing

MikeAqua

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#1985492 29-Mar-2018 16:39

tdgeek:

Road designs in a nutshell. And invariably no room for a cycleway, otherwise they would have done that. Rock and a hard place type of thing

Island bay is a new road layout for the purpose of getting cycle-lane in. It's a total cluster.

St Vincent Street in Nelson won an award for its bike lane design, which is simply dangerous.

Streetview here

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#1985801 30-Mar-2018 01:41

Anyone else remember "The Helmet Lady"? I think she was instrumental in bringing the compulsory helmet law into effect...

I have been seriously injured while riding, (hit by a motorbike at age 9), however I still believe it should be optional not compulsory.

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#1985831 30-Mar-2018 09:15

MikeAqua:
tdgeek:

Road designs in a nutshell. And invariably no room for a cycleway, otherwise they would have done that. Rock and a hard place type of thing

Island bay is a new road layout for the purpose of getting cycle-lane in. It's a total cluster.

St Vincent Street in Nelson won an award for its bike lane design, which is simply dangerous.

Streetview here

How is that dangerous? A totally separated cycle lane is the cyclist’s dream!

happyfunball

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#1987031 2-Apr-2018 09:08

I think the reality is rich white people cycle, and they will get what they want from councils. Its not the majority, or reason that sways the vote.

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#1987054 2-Apr-2018 09:14

happyfunball:

I think the reality is rich white people cycle, and they will get what they want from councils. Its not the majority, or reason that sways the vote.

Huh? I thought it was the opposite?

happyfunball

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#1987057 2-Apr-2018 09:21

Batman:

happyfunball:

I think the reality is rich white people cycle, and they will get what they want from councils. Its not the majority, or reason that sways the vote.

Huh? I thought it was the opposite?

You see a lot of poor brown people on bikes where you live? This article pretty much sums up what I see in Wellington: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/davehillblog/2015/oct/12/why-are-london-cyclists-so-white-male-and-middle-class

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#1987070 2-Apr-2018 09:33

happyfunball:

Batman:

happyfunball:

I think the reality is rich white people cycle, and they will get what they want from councils. Its not the majority, or reason that sways the vote.

Huh? I thought it was the opposite?

You see a lot of poor brown people on bikes where you live? This article pretty much sums up what I see in Wellington: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/davehillblog/2015/oct/12/why-are-london-cyclists-so-white-male-and-middle-class

London is not Welly. Skimming the article, the class structure in London is alive and well. The cyclists are aggressive, although they call it assertive, "When I cut cars up"

Glad I live in NZ

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#1987078 2-Apr-2018 09:55

happyfunball:

Batman:

happyfunball:

I think the reality is rich white people cycle, and they will get what they want from councils. Its not the majority, or reason that sways the vote.

Huh? I thought it was the opposite?

You see a lot of poor brown people on bikes where you live? This article pretty much sums up what I see in Wellington: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/davehillblog/2015/oct/12/why-are-london-cyclists-so-white-male-and-middle-class

It's true that bikes can be expensive (though it is affordable if you know what you're looking for, but that needs a bit of 'research') ... but maybe "middle class white people" might be more accurate. All the rich people I see go around in pretty fancy oversized cars, while all my middle class mates own bikes that cost more than my car (7k). My commuter bike cost about 700 bucks (RRP1600) - not cheap I agree but I had a change of paradigm when i saw this sign. "This one runs on money and makes you fat. This one runs on fat and saves you money." Sold!

PhantomNVD

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#1987091 2-Apr-2018 10:07

happyfunball:
Batman:

happyfunball:

I think the reality is rich white people cycle, and they will get what they want from councils. Its not the majority, or reason that sways the vote.

Huh? I thought it was the opposite?

You see a lot of poor brown people on bikes where you live? This article pretty much sums up what I see in Wellington: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/davehillblog/2015/oct/12/why-are-london-cyclists-so-white-male-and-middle-class

But in that same article’s main photo I count at least 3 women (if breasts still count for gender ID) and reading the WHOLE article it quite strongly shows that culture is the biggest determinant. Asian women wouldn’t cycle at all for any reason, and ‘black’ culture sees cycling as for the poor, and vehicle ownership as a sign of wealth...

MikeAqua

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#1988005 4-Apr-2018 09:31

PhantomNVD:
MikeAqua:

St Vincent Street in Nelson won an award for its bike lane design, which is simply dangerous.

Streetview here

How is that dangerous? A totally separated cycle lane is the cyclist’s dream!

In the linked StreeView imagine trying to get into or out of Harvey Norman when there are cars parked in the car parks. There are industrial premises along sections of this street.

There are cycle lanes in both directions on one side of the road. This is counter intuitive and a lot of people don't notice the oncoming cycle lane.

Before entering a driveway, to get clear view of any oncoming bicycles a driver must stop with their tail blocking the vehicle lane.

On exit, the driver must block the cycle lanes to be able to see past parked cars. The view may be better for trucks with a higher angle of view.

When cars are parked left hand doors discharge passengers (e.g. kids) into the oncoming cycle lane.

A slightly better design would have been not to have cars parked on that side of the road at all.

Mike

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