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Batman

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  #2824591 5-Dec-2021 12:50
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Everything in this universe is a balance. Too much of something is no good too little of something is no good. Too much immune response no good, too little no good. All these data just shows this very simple concept. And when it's time to go, it's time to go.



lchiu7
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  #2824594 5-Dec-2021 13:12
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This is very disappointing news

 

 

 

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/travel/2021/12/kiwirail-cancels-hundreds-of-scenic-train-tickets-because-of-traffic-light-system.html

 

 

 

I had planned on a family scenic trip on the TransAlpine over Christmas given we really cannot go overseas so support the country. Unless something drastic happens this is not going to happen.

 

 

 

Since KiwiRai is an SOE I wonder why the Government can't order an exception and say these rail routes are not public transport and so can require vaccine passports?  I can see requiring passports on pubic transport would be a logistic nightmare with passengers getting on all the time but one only catches the scenic rail routes in a few places so it can't be hard to check the passport at that time.





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quickymart
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  #2824606 5-Dec-2021 13:26
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I wonder if Intercity buses fall under the same category, ie, public transport so no vaccine passports required.




rugrat
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  #2824612 5-Dec-2021 14:01
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Heaps of fake vaccine passports out there. 

 

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/127191548/covid19-hospo-boss-sounds-alarm-over-fake-vaccine-passes

 

Sounds like if there is no identity match, or QR code scan they get through.

 

 

 

Edit “They also said they alerted police last night, but received no response.”


mattwnz
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  #2824616 5-Dec-2021 14:17
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lchiu7:

 

This is very disappointing news

 

 

 

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/travel/2021/12/kiwirail-cancels-hundreds-of-scenic-train-tickets-because-of-traffic-light-system.html

 

 

 

I had planned on a family scenic trip on the TransAlpine over Christmas given we really cannot go overseas so support the country. Unless something drastic happens this is not going to happen.

 

 

 

Since KiwiRai is an SOE I wonder why the Government can't order an exception and say these rail routes are not public transport and so can require vaccine passports?  I can see requiring passports on pubic transport would be a logistic nightmare with passengers getting on all the time but one only catches the scenic rail routes in a few places so it can't be hard to check the passport at that time.

 

 

 

 

There seems to be a lack of common sense. How can Air NZ operate when it is even more confined and is also 'public transport' 

 

Someone needs to get these people in a room and knock their head together to get some common sense decisions. This is meant to be the new normal.


mattwnz
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  #2824617 5-Dec-2021 14:23
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rugrat:

 

Heaps of fake vaccine passports out there. 

 

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/127191548/covid19-hospo-boss-sounds-alarm-over-fake-vaccine-passes

 

Sounds like if there is no identity match, or QR code scan they get through.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is pretty much a waste of time. I got scanned yesterday and it went through fine but no checking of other ID, not that I had any other ID on me as I mainly only carry my phone these days. So someone could just take a screenshot of their ID and give it to others or print someone elses ID and then say they have no other ID on them to confirm it is that persons ID. A QR code that regullay changes and expires IMO should have been implemented, and that would then likely get around the need for other ID being needed and prevent many people using the same passport. If fast food apps can do this, you would think that vaccine passport systems could do it, and NZ didn't need to create our own system, they are being used all over the world already.  


lchiu7
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  #2824623 5-Dec-2021 14:55
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I had my first experience of having my vaccine passport checked yesterday. Went to a local cafe in the Queensgate mall and when I ordered some hot food they asked to see my vaccine passport. I was happy to show that but they didn't  ask to see ID. Instead they gave me a little card to show my passport has been sighted which I will thejn presented to the checkout.





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quickymart
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  #2824635 5-Dec-2021 15:59
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Could Omnicron maybe spell the end of coronavirus? It seems this strain is much less virulent than Delta and the other one, maybe eventually causing it to die out.

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-coronavirus-why-one-expert-says-omicron-variant-may-signal-the-end-of-covid/QUX2HI25576UZXGYAEVQTAQ2PQ/

 

 


cshwone
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  #2824637 5-Dec-2021 16:08
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mattwnz:

 

There seems to be a lack of common sense. How can Air NZ operate when it is even more confined and is also 'public transport' 

 

Someone needs to get these people in a room and knock their head together to get some common sense decisions. This is meant to be the new normal.

 

 

Air NZ requires Passports for domestic travel, as do the Cook Strait Ferries.  Buses and trains do not need passports. Kiwirail made the decision to cancel the scenic trips because they didn't require Passports under the legislation as they regarded this as unsafe.


vexxxboy
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  #2824638 5-Dec-2021 16:14
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people have to remember there are thousands of people that dont have photo id's, my wife and son dont and would be in trouble if asked to prove their vaccine passport is legit.





Common sense is not as common as you think.


sbiddle
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  #2824639 5-Dec-2021 16:22
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cshwone:

 

mattwnz:

 

There seems to be a lack of common sense. How can Air NZ operate when it is even more confined and is also 'public transport' 

 

Someone needs to get these people in a room and knock their head together to get some common sense decisions. This is meant to be the new normal.

 

 

Air NZ requires Passports for domestic travel, as do the Cook Strait Ferries.  Buses and trains do not need passports. Kiwirail made the decision to cancel the scenic trips because they didn't require Passports under the legislation as they regarded this as unsafe.

 

 

100% incorrect. Neither Air NZ nor the ferries require a vaccine pass or to be vaccinated to travel. A test is accepted.

 

It's also worth noting that a vaccine pass is *NOT* proof of vaccination. If you have a medical exemption you can still have a vaccine pass, something plenty of organisations don't seem to understand.

 

 


cshwone
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  #2824642 5-Dec-2021 16:41
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sbiddle:

 

 

 

 

 

100% incorrect. Neither Air NZ nor the ferries require a vaccine pass or to be vaccinated to travel.

 

It's also worth noting that a vaccine pass is *NOT* proof of vaccination. If you have a medical exemption you can still have a vaccine pass, something plenty of organisations don't seem to understand.

 

 

 

 

My apologies, not today but from 14 Dec

 

https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/covid19-new-zealand-domestic-travel

 

"From 14 December 2021, all domestic passengers over 12 years old will be required to show either proof of vaccination status or a negative COVID-19 test before check-in."

 

the same will apply to Cook Strait ferries:

 

https://www.greatjourneysofnz.co.nz/interislander/plan/travel-information/covid/

 

Hardly 100% incorrect!

 

However, the main point I was trying to make is that Kiwirail have decided that operating the scenic journeys without a vaccine pass mandate is unsafe and have cancelled these services which, to me is remarkably sensible. In fact for my two hour each way daily train commute from the Wairarapa it would be far more sensible to mandate the pass.


kyhwana2
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  #2824643 5-Dec-2021 16:42
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quickymart:

 

Could Omnicron maybe spell the end of coronavirus? It seems this strain is much less virulent than Delta and the other one, maybe eventually causing it to die out.

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-coronavirus-why-one-expert-says-omicron-variant-may-signal-the-end-of-covid/QUX2HI25576UZXGYAEVQTAQ2PQ/

 

 

 

 

It could also be the opposite: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-04/omicron-cases-from-oslo-christmas-party-may-surge-to-100-nrk


Scott3
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  #2824646 5-Dec-2021 16:49
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Case number graphs as looking great. Won't be catching the impact of moving to red / orange yet, but should be detecting any impact of black friday. Fingers crossed the downwards trend continues despite the move to red /orange.

 

Testing numbers are still pritty high, so the decline dosn't seem due to a reduction in testing.

 

Number of tests for COVID-19

 

 

 

On first dose vaccination numbers, we are continuing to truck on.

 

5,636 yesterday, Solid, but obviously a bit of a drop from the weekdays as the Friday vaccine mandate for many workers approached. (Friday: 7,352 first doses, thursday 8600 first doses, Wednesday 7,856 & Tuesday 7,432).

 

Based on a 5.084m population, we are now 72.4% fully vaccinated (and 77% partially). This is really good on an international basis. If we were a USA state, on full vaccinated numbers, we would be coming 4th, after Maine, and ahead of Connecticut.

 

But obviously there is a strong incentive to keep pushing hard for more vaccinations, partially as the distribution across NZ is far from homogeneous.

 

 

 

 

 

Regarding vaccine passes, seems that this is mostly theater. System has no integrity unless the pass is scanned and the details encrypted in the QR code are checked against the persons identity (either through prior knowledge or photo ID).

Been to two hospo venues since the pass system came out, one scanned my pass, but didn't check my ID, despite me presenting it. Other didn't check at all (but we had made a declaration of out vaccine status as part of the booking process.

 

Food court at my local mall is not segregated off, so I don't think can be considered it's own defined space, meaning they will be running way over the 100 person capacity cap. A bit dissapointing.

 

Reports of one bar finding 50 fake passes, and other finding zero, suggests the latter aren't checking as fully as the first operator.

 

 

 

On one hand the above is pretty disappointing. If we are doing something we should do it properly.

 

On the other hand, perhaps theater is enough. Its not like the paces are sterile way as exempt people and kids are both allowed. Theater would be enough to motivate most honest people to be vaccinated, and it many would have been motivated many weeks ago when it was unclear how strict the system would be.

 

Should also many of the most staunch anti-vaxers on social media seem to be taking a stand to support businesses that opt out of running a vaccine pass system by only running contactless. - This group have little interest in defrauding the vaccine pass system, just to spend money in businesses running the vaccine pass system. - so it is just the less staunch un-vaccinated (but those who are willing to risk a 5 figure fine) who will be trying it on with fake passes.


sbiddle
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  #2824647 5-Dec-2021 16:50
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cshwone:

 

sbiddle:

 

 

 

 

 

100% incorrect. Neither Air NZ nor the ferries require a vaccine pass or to be vaccinated to travel.

 

It's also worth noting that a vaccine pass is *NOT* proof of vaccination. If you have a medical exemption you can still have a vaccine pass, something plenty of organisations don't seem to understand.

 

 

 

 

My apologies, not today but from 14 Dec

 

https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/covid19-new-zealand-domestic-travel

 

"From 14 December 2021, all domestic passengers over 12 years old will be required to show either proof of vaccination status or a negative COVID-19 test before check-in."

 

the same will apply to Cook Strait ferries:

 

https://www.greatjourneysofnz.co.nz/interislander/plan/travel-information/covid/

 

Hardly 100% incorrect!

 

However, the main point I was trying to make is that Kiwirail have decided that operating the scenic journeys without a vaccine pass mandate is unsafe and have cancelled these services which, to me is remarkably sensible. In fact for my two hour each way daily train commute from the Wairarapa it would be far more sensible to mandate the pass.

 

 

You said they require a vaccine pass. That is not correct as you've acknowledged.

 

Vaccine passes can't be mandated on public transport, and the fact a vaccine pass is not proof of vaccination makes this a moot point anyway.

 

 


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