2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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1070 posts

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#2824700 5-Dec-2021 17:04

sbiddle:

[

You said they require a vaccine pass. That is not correct as you've acknowledged.

Vaccine passes can't be mandated on public transport, and the fact a vaccine pass is not proof of vaccination makes this a moot point anyway.

It seems that Air NZ think otherwise:

https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/covid19-new-zealand-domestic-travel

Vaccination or negative test required for NZ domestic travel

We are adding an extra layer of protection to keep you safe this summer. This means if you are travelling on an Air New Zealand domestic flight between 14 December 2021 - 31 March 2022 you will need to have one of the following:

Proof you are fully vaccinated against COVID-19. You can present the New Zealand Government's My Vaccine Pass either digitally or as a hardcopy.

A negative COVID-19 test result taken within 72 hours of your departing flight either in the form of a text message or a letter from a medical professional.

This applies to all passengers aged 12 years and 3 months or older. We are allowing a 3 month grace period children ages 12 year old to receive both vaccinations and wait the 2 week stand-down period prior to the vaccination becoming effective.

Proof will be required during the check-in process. If you are unable to provide proof at check-in, you will be able to:

Place your booking into credit
Receive a refund if you have purchased a flexirefund fare

Customers with medical exemptions will be able to confirm their exemption at check-in.

Scott3

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#2824702 5-Dec-2021 17:14

mattwnz:

lchiu7:

This is very disappointing news

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/travel/2021/12/kiwirail-cancels-hundreds-of-scenic-train-tickets-because-of-traffic-light-system.html

I had planned on a family scenic trip on the TransAlpine over Christmas given we really cannot go overseas so support the country. Unless something drastic happens this is not going to happen.

Since KiwiRai is an SOE I wonder why the Government can't order an exception and say these rail routes are not public transport and so can require vaccine passports? I can see requiring passports on pubic transport would be a logistic nightmare with passengers getting on all the time but one only catches the scenic rail routes in a few places so it can't be hard to check the passport at that time.

There seems to be a lack of common sense. How can Air NZ operate when it is even more confined and is also 'public transport'

Someone needs to get these people in a room and knock their head together to get some common sense decisions. This is meant to be the new normal.

I suspect the kiwi-rail thing is largely an excuse. Their scenic operation is priced as an activity for higher end tourists (typically international), and not as a transport service. Suspect they would struggle to get enough patronage from the domestic market to meet their target profit.

I also understand that logistics in general in NZ is very busy at the moment - General high freight volumes, plus international ships skipping ports to catch back up to timetable, so dumping freight at wrong locations for customers to sort out. Suspect resources like locomotives & drivers can be re-deployed to a more profitable cargo operation.

In terms of the Rules, See 10 (e) here:

https://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2021/0386/latest/whole.html#LMS607377

"In this order, designated premises means—
....
(e) a public transport service except—
(i) domestic air transport service; or
(ii) Cook Strait ferry:"

Note that a designated premises is one banned from asking for a vaccine pass.

My take is that Air NZ jumped the gun, Publishing its domestic vaccine (or recent test) requirement well prior to the order coming out.

Government seemed pretty happy with this, as it took the heat of the decision off them and gave them an example of a private (well partially private) business that had made it's own decision for the safety of it's staff and customers.

This made aviation an obvious thing to excluded from the ban on asking for vaccine proof.

And with Air NZ with it's vaccine or test mandate, it became a pretty easy win to exclude the cook straight ferries from the PT vaccine pass ban too, and ask them to run a pass or test system, in order to be seen to be taking steps to protect the south island (but also allowing travel).

Not sure what jetstar are doing regarding requring proof of vaccine, beyond the government mandated 15 Dec - 17th Jan vaccine pass or recent test requirements for leaving Auckland.

Elephant in the room is that test's aren't being reliably processed in 72 hours atm.

sbiddle

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#2824703 5-Dec-2021 17:18

cshwone:

sbiddle:

[

You said they require a vaccine pass. That is not correct as you've acknowledged.

Vaccine passes can't be mandated on public transport, and the fact a vaccine pass is not proof of vaccination makes this a moot point anyway.

It seems that Air NZ think otherwise:

https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/covid19-new-zealand-domestic-travel

Vaccination or negative test required for NZ domestic travel

We are adding an extra layer of protection to keep you safe this summer. This means if you are travelling on an Air New Zealand domestic flight between 14 December 2021 - 31 March 2022 you will need to have one of the following:

Proof you are fully vaccinated against COVID-19. You can present the New Zealand Government's My Vaccine Pass either digitally or as a hardcopy.
or

A negative COVID-19 test result taken within 72 hours of your departing flight either in the form of a text message or a letter from a medical professional.
This applies to all passengers aged 12 years and 3 months or older. We are allowing a 3 month grace period children ages 12 year old to receive both vaccinations and wait the 2 week stand-down period prior to the vaccination becoming effective.

Proof will be required during the check-in process. If you are unable to provide proof at check-in, you will be able to:

Place your booking into credit
Receive a refund if you have purchased a flexirefund fare
Customers with medical exemptions will be able to confirm their exemption at check-in.

It doesn't matter what Air NZ say. A vaccine pass is NOT proof of being vaccinated and was never designed to be proof of vaccination. Somebody who in unvaccinated and with a medical exemption can have a vaccine pass. I'm assuming you are unaware of this - https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines/my-covid-record-proof-vaccination-status/covid-19-vaccine-exemptions-and-certificates

The purpose of the pass is to provide proof of eligibility to enter premises using the vaccine pass under the Covid protection framework. Anybody who has a pass whether that be somebody is is fully vaccinated with a vaccine pass or somebody with a medical exemption who has a vaccine pass is eligible to enter those premises.

Scott3

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#2824705 5-Dec-2021 17:23

sbiddle:

...

Vaccine passes can't be mandated on public transport, and the fact a vaccine pass is not proof of vaccination makes this a moot point anyway.

Domestic air transport services are exempt from that.

See 10 (e) (i) here:

https://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2021/0386/latest/whole.html#LMS607377

I don't think it is worth getting too hung up on the difference between a fully vaccinated person and a person who holds a vaccine pass. [Edit] for stuff like accessing air travel - obviously for something like a medical procedure - or for working in close contact with a covid-19 case a distinction should be made, and the actual vaccination status should be checked.

I think many businesses have missed that there is a potential distinction, however I don't think it matters. Within NZ I am pretty happy that people with government issues exemptions get treated the same a fully vaccinated person. And as such that the distinction between the two being un-important. (beyond meaning that using a domestic vaccine pass is not actually disclosing your medical information like the international one does.)

[edit2] - note that business running vaccine pass systems aren't required to exclude un-vaccinated kids. A much more common situation than people exempt from vaccination.

tdgeek

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#2824715 5-Dec-2021 17:49

quickymart:

Could Omnicron maybe spell the end of coronavirus? It seems this strain is much less virulent than Delta and the other one, maybe eventually causing it to die out.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-coronavirus-why-one-expert-says-omicron-variant-may-signal-the-end-of-covid/QUX2HI25576UZXGYAEVQTAQ2PQ/

Hope so, but like many posts and many news/social media items, its hard to know until you filter out the noise.

tdgeek

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#2824716 5-Dec-2021 17:53

mattwnz:

There seems to be a lack of common sense. How can Air NZ operate when it is even more confined and is also 'public transport'

Someone needs to get these people in a room and knock their head together to get some common sense decisions. This is meant to be the new normal.

Yep, someone in the news lately said Auckland needs to be green, ok just for hospo.Reminds me of 2 weeks after 26 arch 2020 when its too much and its too long.

We are entering the business vs health bitching

cshwone

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#2824719 5-Dec-2021 17:56

@sbiddle you are being overly pedantic, to what purpose I am not sure.

If I pitch up to Air NZ check in, a bar, a restaurant, McDonalds etc. I will be required to show my Vaccine Pass. That is accepted and recognised as an acceptable means of proof of vaccination.

The fact that there are some outliers, ie the medically exempt, a minor, minor fraction of the total, also getting the vaccine pass (which I was aware of) is such an edge case that I do wonder what your point is.

Equinox IT

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alexx

867 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2824735 5-Dec-2021 18:58

PB Tech have upset the anti-vaxxers by saying that their showrooms will reopen on Monday 6th December to My Vaccine Pass holders only. You can still order on-line, or click and collect, but a tiny percentage of people are angry that PB Tech taking precautions to protect their staff and their customers.

#include <standard.disclaimer>

tdgeek

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#2824743 5-Dec-2021 19:02

alexx:

PB Tech have upset the anti-vaxxers by saying that their showrooms will reopen on Monday 6th December to My Vaccine Pass holders only. You can still order on-line, or click and collect, but a tiny percentage of people are angry that PB Tech taking precautions to protect their staff and their customers.

The tiny % is about 4%. Id suggest the other 96% who are vaxxed would prefer a safe environment. Its a pity that normal people dont get upset, that would drown out the outliers, and remove some wasted news space that is better served by KFC ads

Batman

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#2824752 5-Dec-2021 19:26

Australia approves vaccine for 5-11 year olds https://www.odt.co.nz/news/world/aussie-regulator-approves-pfizer-vaccine-children

ANglEAUT

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#2824753 5-Dec-2021 19:26

cshwone: sbiddle you are being overly pedantic, to what purpose I am not sure. ...

The devil is in the details. Let's state accurate facts & not vague generalities.

cshwone: ... I will be required to show my Vaccine Pass. That is accepted and recognised as an acceptable means of proof of vaccination. ...

Emphasis mine, sbiddle's point. Technically, the vaccination certificate can't be used as proof of vaccination, even if pretty much everyone uses it for that specific purpose.

Please keep this GZ community vibrant by contributing in a constructive & respectful manner.

mattwnz

20141 posts

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#2824763 5-Dec-2021 19:55

quickymart:

Could Omnicron maybe spell the end of coronavirus? It seems this strain is much less virulent than Delta and the other one, maybe eventually causing it to die out.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-coronavirus-why-one-expert-says-omicron-variant-may-signal-the-end-of-covid/QUX2HI25576UZXGYAEVQTAQ2PQ/

The problem is that it can take weeks for people to get bad enough to need hospital treatment, as they worsen. So it is still all speculation. But I do recall hearing similar scenarios last year from experts when this started, where hopefully a less dangerous but potentially more infectious version comes out that will wipe out their more dangerous strains.

quickymart

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#2824788 5-Dec-2021 21:26

tdgeek:

mattwnz:

There seems to be a lack of common sense. How can Air NZ operate when it is even more confined and is also 'public transport'

Someone needs to get these people in a room and knock their head together to get some common sense decisions. This is meant to be the new normal.

Yep, someone in the news lately said Auckland needs to be green, ok just for hospo.Reminds me of 2 weeks after 26 arch 2020 when its too much and its too long.

We are entering the business vs health bitching

Christopher Luxon?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-national-leader-christopher-luxon-says-auckland-should-be-in-green-setting/XDBNMH3T52JLBGXE3GEPFWBDMQ/

Scott3

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#2824789 5-Dec-2021 21:26

Regarding pfizer for under 5's, all going well they are talking about first quarter 2022 in the USA.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/pfizer-vaccine-data-kids-under-5-years-end-2021-12?r=US&IR=T

We seen to run a few months behind the USA, so hopefully we will start that age group roll out in the 2nd quarter 2022 here.

Batman:

Australia approves vaccine for 5-11 year olds https://www.odt.co.nz/news/world/aussie-regulator-approves-pfizer-vaccine-children

Obviously a big milestone for Australia.

Note "with the health minister saying the rollout could begin from January 10"

Given that is over a month away, I would guess that they are waiting on delivery of the pediatric formulation, and as such the approval process is not the bottleneck to get the rollout to this age group started.

Batman

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#2824792 5-Dec-2021 21:29

Scott3:
Regarding pfizer for under 5's, all going well they are talking about first quarter 2022 in the USA.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/pfizer-vaccine-data-kids-under-5-years-end-2021-12?r=US&IR=T

We seen to run a few months behind the USA, so hopefully we will start that age group roll out in the 2nd quarter 2022 here.

Good news

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