2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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366 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2831037 12-Dec-2021 22:16

MikeB4: Folks need to remember vaccinations are not about conspiracy, division, power, politics. Vaccinations are about aroha, aroha for, with and to ALL New Zealanders. He waka eke noa:

Well spoken. Kia ora

Just keep swimming...

quickymart

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#2831038 12-Dec-2021 22:16

I read today (maybe on Newshub) that apparently 3 Pfizer vaccines give greater protection against Omnicron than just the 2. So I'll be lining up for my booster when it's due, I think mid next year sometime.

quickymart

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#2831039 12-Dec-2021 22:18

Technofreak:

MikeB4: Folks need to remember vaccinations are not about conspiracy, division, power, politics. Vaccinations are about aroha, aroha for, with and to ALL New Zealanders. He waka eke noa:

You have obviously not conversed with any of the anti vaxxers I have. Try your line on with them and see how far you get. It is bloody frightening and disheartening to see it ripping families apart. To them it is totally about all the things you mention and nothing absolutely nothing will change their minds. I am at my wits end with some family members.

Anything in here that may be of help?

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/05-10-2021/three-practical-questions-to-ask-the-vaccine-hesitant

Sup

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Ultimate Geek

#2831042 12-Dec-2021 22:27

Scott3:

Good news regarding Karina Haira (the person that shared videos of her deteriorating condition while infected with covid-19), She is home from hospital.

Still sounds like the has a long road ahead of her in terms of recovery.

That is good news indeed.

Long Covid symptoms are pretty prevalent in people who got really unwell in the acute phase of the illness. Getting a vaccine helps for a lot of people in the reduction and treatment of long Covid symptoms.

She had a very hard time of it. What ever they gave her through that arterial line the night things went South on her saved her life.

A fantastic job done by Waikato hospital there, supported by the fight in Karina herself.

Just keep swimming...

Sup

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Ultimate Geek

#2831043 12-Dec-2021 22:30

Scott3:

Sup:

I am wondering if your friend the one who had myocarditis, would now qualify for one of the Oxford Astrazeneca vaccine.

I am fairly certain that this option is open to those who have had medical issues from Pfizer use.

Surely the Doctor can prescribe the alternate shot now.

Mixing and matching of course is fine.

Should note that the government decided not to require any qualification for the AstraZenica vaccine (beyond being 18+ years old, and not having a few rare medical conditions).

Anybody who wants one can simply book one via bookmyvaccine (only limited sites offer it). I understand that everybody gets sat down, for a discussion that goes something like: Both vaccines are considered safe and effective, and at the end of this discussion you are welcome to choose either, but pfizer is considered to be more effective and have a better safety profile, what are your thoughts?

More good news reading this thanks. A pragmatic solution. It would be good if we had some Novavax in stock as well, since this seems to be the preferred alternative to the mRNA vaccines by the hesitant.

We did have a eleven million vaccine order with Novavax at one time which seems to have gone by the way in favor of Ox AZ.

Just keep swimming...

Technofreak

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#2831045 12-Dec-2021 22:33

quickymart:

Technofreak:

You have obviously not conversed with any of the anti vaxxers I have. Try your line on with them and see how far you get. It is bloody frightening and disheartening to see it ripping families apart. To them it is totally about all the things you mention and nothing absolutely nothing will change their minds. I am at my wits end with some family members.

Anything in here that may be of help?

Thank you for the link. Unfortunately these people aren't just vaccine hesitant. They are anti vax in capital letters. They will tell you, if you have the vaccine you're going to die, no question, the government and media are covering up all the deaths from the vaccine, it's all about control, new world order etc. Why isn't the government approving all these world beating treatments, Ivermectin works we should be using that and so on.

They will go to any length not to have the vaccine. Rational discussions and questioning go nowhere.

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Sup

366 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2831047 12-Dec-2021 22:41

MikeB4:

MikeB4:

Some food for thought. If you cannot understand the thinking of an anti vaccination believer think of this. In a time where they feel so much has bee taken away from their control because of covid that saying no to the injection is a way of gaining just a little control in their life. The irony is by making that decision they are removing more control.

Remember stress and anxiety manifests in many ways and we are all in this.

Are you saying that I am stating alternative facts? That is the opposite of what I am saying. My oldest son (psychologist) was relaying this thoughts to me in order to try and make sense of what is happening with out the anger. Similar to what was being said tonight on the John Campbell documentary on TV1.

For the record I am s very strong advocate of vaccines and a review of my posts here throughout the last two years would support that.

You must be a proud dad.

I read your comment about people feeling powerless and dismissing the vaccine out of hand, I think this is fundamentally what is driving a lot of young Maori to say no.

They may feel that they do not care if they die. That is an indictment on how life is for them, and a very difficult place to try to engage people from.

I know a lot of young people just dont give a stuff about themselves and that includes getting sick and even death, which is reflected in our youth suicide rates across all groups but especially Maori.

The flip side of the anger at the antivaxxers is, that people (I am not preaching to you on this) are scared on the vaccinated side of the aisle.

They feel kept hostage, held to ransom, threatened, ignored, uncared for by their peers across the divide.

I know the right way is to show patience and understanding, I fail at this often, I succumb to my own anger about the virus and the way people affect me with their decisions which is dis empowering.

I am not trying to make excuses, no, I am reflecting on how this thing about understanding is a two way mirror. And people seemed to start out being patient and understanding, but the more they are exposed to the crazy stuff, the more they feel threatened.

Some feel as though Governments should step in and end this friction by taking the role of bad cop and mandating vaccines for all.

I personally feel this way, however I have come from a background where it was my job to take away peoples choices for the greater good of all...these ethical principles, the greater good...I lived by.

As such I do understand why it is shock to others to hear this pov.

Just keep swimming...

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Handle9

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#2831049 12-Dec-2021 22:56

Sup: A pragmatic solution. It would be good if we had some Novavax in stock as well, since this seems to be the preferred alternative to the mRNA vaccines by the hesitant.

We did have a eleven million vaccine order with Novavax at one time which seems to have gone by the way in favor of Ox AZ.

Novavax doesn’t have regulatory approval anywhere in the western world.

quickymart

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#2831055 12-Dec-2021 23:14

My relative wanted the Janssen (Johnson & Johnson) vaccine, which does have approval here, but good luck to her trying to get it.

Kookoo

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#2831056 12-Dec-2021 23:17

quickymart:

Anything in here that may be of help?

The issue with conversation guides, government communication startegies etc. is that they are aimed at middle New Zealand where there isn't that much of a problem to be honest. Sure, we all have some typical pakeha friends who're hesitant. But if you want to see some large scale underground vaccine rejection - try the immigrant communities and the ethnic minorities.

People are reluctant to talk about it because of racial connotations, but I bet you that vaccination rate among immigrants from Eastern Europe and their families is about 50% if we're lucky. I am not sure if the Latin American community is doing any better. Pacifica rates are probably a bit higher but there's also a bit more of an effort going there. Maori vaccination rates are struggling too. And I have no idea how to talk to these people - they're so passionate about their stance, and as an outsider you have zero credibility there.

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Scott3

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#2831057 12-Dec-2021 23:22

Sup:

More good news reading this thanks. A pragmatic solution. It would be good if we had some Novavax in stock as well, since this seems to be the preferred alternative to the mRNA vaccines by the hesitant.

We did have a eleven million vaccine order with Novavax at one time which seems to have gone by the way in favor of Ox AZ.

AstraZeneca both medsafe approved, and available. Was a good decision to bring it online for those that actually can't have Pfizer (say due to an allergy to one of the ingredients). Given this, it is was a very pragmatic decision to open availability much wider. Every extra person vaccinated is a win, and what covid-19 vaccine is of lesser importance.

In one of the press conferences is was mentioned that a good number of the early people to book AstraZeneca vaccines made the decision to get pfizer instead after being presented information on both. So the mere presence of AZ would have generated a few more pfizer vaccinations.

Regarding other vaccines. Yes we still have a advance purchase agreement 2m doses of Janssen, and the same for 10.72m doses of Novavax.

But Janssen (single dose) is less effective than a AZ full coarse, and is also a viral vector vaccine, so seems of lesser value to offer.

Novavax has been approved in Indonesia & the Philippines and has provided some date to NZ medsafe. Med-safe are waiting on further data. Not really any way of telling how long approval will take. Nothing can really be done untill there is medsafe approval.

Handle9

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#2831058 12-Dec-2021 23:22

Kookoo:
quickymart:
Anything in here that may be of help?

The issue with conversation guides, government communication startegies etc. is that they are aimed at middle New Zealand where there isn't that much of a problem to be honest. Sure, we all have some typical pakeha friends who're hesitant. But if you want to see some large scale underground vaccine rejection - try the immigrant communities and the ethnic minorities.
People are reluctant to talk about it because of racial connotations, but I bet you that vaccination rate among immigrants from Eastern Europe and their families is about 50% if we're lucky. I am not sure if the Latin American community is doing any better. Pacifica rates are probably a bit higher but there's also a bit more of an effort going there. Maori vaccination rates are struggling too. And I have no idea how to talk to these people - they're so passionate about their stance, and as an outsider you have zero credibility there.

Pasifika are 86% fully vaccinated and Māori around 75% with around 85% having had one shot. When resources are made available to those communities they get vaccinated.

quickymart

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#2831063 12-Dec-2021 23:31

Scott3:

Regarding other vaccines. Yes we still have a advance purchase agreement 2m doses of Janssen, and the same for 10.72m doses of Novavax.

But Janssen (single dose) is less effective than a AZ full coarse, and is also a viral vector vaccine, so seems of lesser value to offer.

Problem is, my relative (see a few pages back) has been fed info from another relative (who was a chemist for a number of years) that if there's a family history of heart conditions, the mRNA component can cause health problems. So she's just hanging out for Janssen.

I didn't go much further with her as to what she would do if it was never made available (this was on the phone) as I just got too frustrated listening to her justify everything Mr Chemist (note, not a doctor) had told her and she had made up her mind that (somehow) he was the final word on all things vaccine, so I ended the call politely. I haven't spoken to her since.
Complicating things is I'm planning a family trip there soon and have no idea how I'm going to handle seeing her, and all my other relatives, a lot of whom are quite possibly not vaccinated either.

Making things hard for me is this is something I'm quite passionate about (everyone should get the vaccine) but I don't handle confrontation well.

Sorry for the divert there :(

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#2831123 13-Dec-2021 07:35

quickymart:

Problem is, my relative (see a few pages back) has been fed info from another relative (who was a chemist for a number of years) that if there's a family history of heart conditions, the mRNA component can cause health problems. So she's just hanging out for Janssen.

out of 5 million people she is not the only person who has a family history of heart conditions.

either she's an antivaxxer, vaccine hesitant, incredibly anxious

look, out of everyone who's posted on this thread who have have the vaccine 99% of us have a family history or actual personal history of heart conditions.

it is NOT a reason to not take the pfizer

the real reason is being in the anti Pfizer cult

i hope you can see this. and then try and get her out of the cult. you are feeding her cult rituals by trying to find alternate vaccines for her. next it will be something else, and something else, etc and it will never stop.

MikeB4

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#2831127 13-Dec-2021 07:50

Things need to be dialed down in Aotearoa. The stress in and anxiety in the country is impacting in a dangerous way. Our society is turning angry. When under stress the frontal lobes of the human brain go to sleep and the more primitive lobes eg fight or flight dominate and dominate our responses and behaviour. This is evident in pro and anti vaccination groups.

We are seeing a disturbing increase of anger, abuse and in some cases violence from both sides. There is also a disturbing rise in xenophobia and racism and can may lead to some very ugly outcomes.

The rise in protests and acts of protest are a symptom of this. Social media, forums and traditional news media are fuelling this by triggering the fight or flight etc reactions. Aoteoroa was a nation that believed and felt proud of a belief we were tolerant and inclusive however it took just a few months to change that and our intolerance to come forth.

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