2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2840737 31-Dec-2021 09:56

quickymart:

sbiddle:

Based on the outrage today from people at the DJ I really worry about how many people are going to cope when for the first time this whole pandemic every single NZer could be facing the reality of Covid cases in their communities literally weeks from now and the real world reality that they could well catch Covid.

I hope all the antivaxxers sit up and pay attention! I also hope they would sing a different tune if they were impacted - as a lot of antivaxxers (mostly in the US, but a few here) have done already.

Pay attention to what? Antivaxxers see that they've been vilified by everybody but are now being proven correct. Many are celebrating.

The simple reality is data is showing two jabs of Pfizer offers very minimal protection against infection by Omicron. From what I've seen and read in recent days most aren't worried about Omicron, and data from the past few days showing the immune response being generated after an Omicron infection potentially offering a very powerful immune response even against Delta just further backs their claims.

We may all want antivaxxers to catch Covid and suffer but the reality is their chances of catching it are similar to somebody who is double vaxxed.

quickymart

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#2840744 31-Dec-2021 10:12

sbiddle:

Pay attention to what? Antivaxxers see that they've been vilified by everybody but are now being proven correct. Many are celebrating.

The simple reality is data is showing two jabs of Pfizer offers very minimal protection against infection by Omicron. From what I've seen and read in recent days most aren't worried about Omicron, and data from the past few days showing the immune response being generated after an Omicron infection potentially offering a very powerful immune response even against Delta just further backs their claims.

We may all want antivaxxers to catch Covid and suffer but the reality is their chances of catching it are similar to somebody who is double vaxxed.

I didn't know all that. I was meaning that maybe someone close to an antivaxxer might catch coronavirus and make them change their mind, but with Omnicron I guess not.

rhy7s

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#2840753 31-Dec-2021 10:40

quickymart:

sbiddle:

Pay attention to what? Antivaxxers see that they've been vilified by everybody but are now being proven correct. Many are celebrating.

The simple reality is data is showing two jabs of Pfizer offers very minimal protection against infection by Omicron. From what I've seen and read in recent days most aren't worried about Omicron, and data from the past few days showing the immune response being generated after an Omicron infection potentially offering a very powerful immune response even against Delta just further backs their claims.

We may all want antivaxxers to catch Covid and suffer but the reality is their chances of catching it are similar to somebody who is double vaxxed.

I didn't know all that. I was meaning that maybe someone close to an antivaxxer might catch coronavirus and make them change their mind, but with Omnicron I guess not.

This seems a little disingenuous, to focus on infection, and to not see that the reduced protection against infection is still highly significant at a population level and the protection against severe disease is still very high. And we're not out of options in that a third dose improves both levels of protection, hardly a win for forgoing vaccination. And previous Delta infection isn't providing a whole lot of 'natural immunity' against Omicron either.

Current figures suggest that vaccines offer 30 to 40 percent protection against infection and around 70 percent protection against hospitalization without boosters.
Newer data is confirming that a third dose increases antibody production and boosts effectiveness against infection to around 75 percent and 85 percent for severe disease.

tdgeek

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#2840758 31-Dec-2021 10:48

rhy7s:

This seems a little disingenuous, to focus on infection, and to not see that the reduced protection against infection is still highly significant at a population level and the protection against severe disease is still very high. And we're not out of options in that a third dose improves both levels of protection, hardly a win for forgoing vaccination. And previous Delta infection isn't providing a whole lot of 'natural immunity' against Omicron either.

Current figures suggest that vaccines offer 30 to 40 percent protection against infection and around 70 percent protection against hospitalization without boosters.
Newer data is confirming that a third dose increases antibody production and boosts effectiveness against infection to around 75 percent and 85 percent for severe disease.

Yep, too much scaremongering here sometimes

Scott3

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#2840765 31-Dec-2021 11:06

NSW numbers are out. Not pretty. That said, I expected hospital load to be higher at this point.

tdgeek

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#2840803 31-Dec-2021 14:03

Coach Ufuk Talay is cautiously optimistic Wellington Phoenix have managed to avoid a wider outbreak in their A-League Men squad after the two players that tested positive for Covid-19 this week returned negative results on Friday.

Makes you wonder how dodgy these tests seem to be

DS248

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#2840807 31-Dec-2021 14:19

US Omicron surge 'unlike anything we've ever seen'

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/12/30/health/us-coronavirus-thursday/index.html

An unprecedented spike in Covid-19 cases fueled by the fast-moving Omicron variant is crushing hospitals across the United States ...

"What we're experiencing right now is an absolute overwhelming of the emergency departments in Washington", Phillips, chief of disaster medicine at George Washington University Hospital, told CNN

It's a scene playing out across the country ...

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vexxxboy

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#2840808 31-Dec-2021 14:29

DS248:

US Omicron surge 'unlike anything we've ever seen'

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/12/30/health/us-coronavirus-thursday/index.html

An unprecedented spike in Covid-19 cases fueled by the fast-moving Omicron variant is crushing hospitals across the United States ...

"What we're experiencing right now is an absolute overwhelming of the emergency departments in Washington", Phillips, chief of disaster medicine at George Washington University Hospital, told CNN

It's a scene playing out across the country ...

if there ever a country where the saying "reap what you sow" is more apt ,it is the USA. When you have a full population vaccination rate of only 61 % and in some States it is around 50% [ Texas] no mask wearing , no restrictions in most states and Delta still rising then it is a recipe for Disaster and they have no one to blame except themselves.

Common sense is not as common as you think.

sbiddle

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#2840809 31-Dec-2021 14:31

rhy7s:

quickymart:

sbiddle:

Pay attention to what? Antivaxxers see that they've been vilified by everybody but are now being proven correct. Many are celebrating.

The simple reality is data is showing two jabs of Pfizer offers very minimal protection against infection by Omicron. From what I've seen and read in recent days most aren't worried about Omicron, and data from the past few days showing the immune response being generated after an Omicron infection potentially offering a very powerful immune response even against Delta just further backs their claims.

We may all want antivaxxers to catch Covid and suffer but the reality is their chances of catching it are similar to somebody who is double vaxxed.

I didn't know all that. I was meaning that maybe someone close to an antivaxxer might catch coronavirus and make them change their mind, but with Omnicron I guess not.

This seems a little disingenuous, to focus on infection, and to not see that the reduced protection against infection is still highly significant at a population level and the protection against severe disease is still very high. And we're not out of options in that a third dose improves both levels of protection, hardly a win for forgoing vaccination. And previous Delta infection isn't providing a whole lot of 'natural immunity' against Omicron either.

Current figures suggest that vaccines offer 30 to 40 percent protection against infection and around 70 percent protection against hospitalization without boosters.
Newer data is confirming that a third dose increases antibody production and boosts effectiveness against infection to around 75 percent and 85 percent for severe disease.

Prior Delta infection doesn't protect against Omicron because of the very different makeup of the virus - it's the very same reason that vaccines have significantly reduced real world effectiveness against it. Having said that the problem is unvaccinated are not becoming seriously ill or waking up dead at significantly higher rates than those people who are fully vaccinated.

Some early data is however showing that Omicron may deliver antibodies that are highly effective against Delta and may deliver some fairly wide ranging protection against other spike mutations as well.

We know for a fact that true case numbers of Omicron are far higher than what data is showing. Up until now I knew one person who had caught Covid this whole pandemic - I now know 5 who have caught it in the last week, 4 of whom have been double jabbed + booster. 3 of them wouldn't even be represented in official stats because after finding yourself sick and using a RAT (well several) to confirm the infection there isn't much to do except isolate for a few days until you feel better.

The UK is being very vague about hospitailsation numbers and in particular providing breakdowns of vaccination status because the number of unvaccinated was only making up around 26% of hospitalisations of confirmed Omicron cases. They seemed worried that releasing the data that it's simply going to be used by anti vaxxers.

Vaccines are helping provide B cell and T cell responses against Omicron, but we need to accept that being double jabbed or even having had a booster is not going to provide a robust response and prevent significant numbers of NZers catching Omicron when CT finally occurs here.

Oblivian

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#2840810 31-Dec-2021 14:35

DS248:
US Omicron surge 'unlike anything we've ever seen'

You mean like a year ago when Delta didn't exist either...

Short memories

DS248

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#2840811 31-Dec-2021 14:39

Over 1m new cases in the US in the last two days

France over 400,000 new cases in the last two days. Per capita that is double the US rate, so still appears to be potential for higher US numbers.

UK capita rate not that far below France (370,000 in last two days).

NSW per capita rate similar to UK (based on 21,151 yesterday).

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#main_table

MikeB4

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#2840812 31-Dec-2021 14:40

Time for a rethink on the approach to dealing with Covid if we continue on our current path we will be heading for a humanitarian crisis. We cannot live with Covid, that flawed thinking will condemn a great many people. US hospitals are struggling and they are in a different league of readiness. People thinking we can live with are in la la land.

vexxxboy

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#2840813 31-Dec-2021 14:42

Oblivian:
DS248:

US Omicron surge 'unlike anything we've ever seen'

You mean like a year ago when Delta didn't exist either...

Short memories

you also forgot the panic over the South African variety before that, Short memories alright.

Common sense is not as common as you think.

vexxxboy

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#2840817 31-Dec-2021 15:21

MikeB4: Time for a rethink on the approach to dealing with Covid if we continue on our current path we will be heading for a humanitarian crisis. We cannot live with Covid, that flawed thinking will condemn a great many people. US hospitals are struggling and they are in a different league of readiness. People thinking we can live with are in la la land.

it is a case of having to live with Covid , we have managed it quite well so far and as i said above if the US are struggling then it is their own fault. The only thing that could be and should be different is to make sure all countries have easy access to the vaccine and it should be the first priority for all wealthy countries to make sure it happens.

Common sense is not as common as you think.

quickymart

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#2840820 31-Dec-2021 15:34

Sigh. The stupidity of some people.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/small-business/127404291/perching-parrot-cafe-has-outdoor-dining-licence-suspended-after-opting-out-of-my-vaccine-pass

She said she did not want her, her staff, or her customers to get Covid-19 and did not want the virus spreading in the community.

“I know that this virus is dangerous.”

Then get the vaccine, you dumbass, and stop trying to game the system to prevent the virus from spreading!!
There's one cafe I'll never, ever visit.

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