2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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BDFL - Memuneh
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#2854381 20-Jan-2022 20:41

cruxis:

It Does not metion covid was cause the of death. This is kind of pro vax misinformation. Which the anti vaxs use as the "main stream media agenda".

She choked to death, after seemed to recover from covid.

Yes, and no. The BBC writes "On Sunday morning, the day she died, Ms Horka said she was feeling better and dressed to go for a walk. But then her back started hurting, so she went to lie down in her bedroom. "In about 10 minutes it was all over," her son said. "She choked to death"."

The assumption here is she died of covid - choked to death is a description her son gave to journalists. It's pretty much what happens with some covid patients. Also she wasn't "recovered". She claimed to be feeling better but there's no word from a doctor or anything. So for all we know she felt better but was never cured, then had a turn.

itxtme

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#2854409 20-Jan-2022 22:00

freitasm:

Yes, and no. The BBC writes "On Sunday morning, the day she died, Ms Horka said she was feeling better and dressed to go for a walk. But then her back started hurting, so she went to lie down in her bedroom. "In about 10 minutes it was all over," her son said. "She choked to death"."

The assumption here is she died of covid - choked to death is a description her son gave to journalists. It's pretty much what happens with some covid patients. Also she wasn't "recovered". She claimed to be feeling better but there's no word from a doctor or anything. So for all we know she felt better but was never cured, then had a turn.

Sounds like a Pulmonary embolisim. Much increased chances in non vaccinated population that catches it.

quickymart

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#2854418 20-Jan-2022 22:31

In any case, I feel for her son and husband left behind. The fact the son (at least) said "basically, get vaccinated" means at least something good came out it...although now he doesn't have his Mum anymore :(

Scott3

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#2854427 20-Jan-2022 23:07

Back door into NZ for citizens without MIQ voucher's (Paywall):

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/covid-19-miq-system-father-explains-how-his-voucher-less-family-gatecrashed-way-into-nz/JPMDZZ2EZGHY2S5P5SSAFMGQNA/

Crux of the story is a family of four decided to travel who were essential locked out of NZ, decided to travel to Australia to Fiji, in order to avail cheaper accommodation in the Fiji. When they saw the city from the plane, they made a decision to abandon the second leg of their flight.

"My daughter said she wanted to go home and see her dog, and her nana, and she started crying. My son started crying, So I talked to my wife and I said 'You know what? [Badword] it, let's just walk through."

Underlying this, my understanding is that citizens cannot be refused entry to NZ, and the whole MIQ voucher to come to NZ works legally as they government penalises airlines that fly people without vouchers here, so the airlines don't let people board bound for NZ without vouchers. Booking a flight that with a transit stopover in NZ means the airline instead checks the requirements for the final destination. But once ones feet are on the ground in NZ any subsequent flight's cab be abandoned and a citizen cannot be refused entry, and by the sounds of it, just get's put on a bus to MIQ with all the voucher holders. (some talk of a $1000 fine - like a parking fine with no conviction against your name for turning up without a MIQ booking, but small fry really).

Ge0rge

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#2854482 21-Jan-2022 09:02

We're going to see more of the above, possibly even as early as today.

SJB

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#2854503 21-Jan-2022 09:44

Scott3:

(some talk of a $1000 fine - like a parking fine with no conviction against your name for turning up without a MIQ booking, but small fry really).

Plus the charge for 10 days in MIQ. I think for a family staying in 1 room that's around $5000 but I could be wrong.

CruciasNZ

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#2854512 21-Jan-2022 10:17

Scott3:

Underlying this, my understanding is that citizens cannot be refused entry to NZ, and the whole MIQ voucher to come to NZ works legally as they government penalises airlines that fly people without vouchers here, so the airlines don't let people board bound for NZ without vouchers. Booking a flight that with a transit stopover in NZ means the airline instead checks the requirements for the final destination. But once ones feet are on the ground in NZ any subsequent flight's cab be abandoned and a citizen cannot be refused entry, and by the sounds of it, just get's put on a bus to MIQ with all the voucher holders. (some talk of a $1000 fine - like a parking fine with no conviction against your name for turning up without a MIQ booking, but small fry really).

Got to commend them on finding such a loophole. I am all for MIQ and forcing quarantine to protect the wider community, but the state of MIQ is a shambles. They've had two years of manic demand for MIQ spots, they could easily have increased capacity in a sensible fashion by now. It takes time to convert existing facilities into MIQ compatible ones, but they've had plenty time to do so.

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wellygary

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#2854515 21-Jan-2022 10:24

SJB:

Scott3:

(some talk of a $1000 fine - like a parking fine with no conviction against your name for turning up without a MIQ booking, but small fry really).

Plus the charge for 10 days in MIQ. I think for a family staying in 1 room that's around $5000 but I could be wrong.

Yeah, but they would be paying that anyway if they could get an MIQ voucher, so its the same either way,,,

I expect that airlines will now be asked to only deplane NZ bound arrivals, and transit PAX will remain on board,,,

Jase2985

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#2854520 21-Jan-2022 10:31

CruciasNZ:

Got to commend them on finding such a loophole. I am all for MIQ and forcing quarantine to protect the wider community, but the state of MIQ is a shambles. They've had two years of manic demand for MIQ spots, they could easily have increased capacity in a sensible fashion by now. It takes time to convert existing facilities into MIQ compatible ones, but they've had plenty time to do so.

where do you find staff for said facilities?

Scott3

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#2854522 21-Jan-2022 10:55

SJB:

Scott3:

(some talk of a $1000 fine - like a parking fine with no conviction against your name for turning up without a MIQ booking, but small fry really).

Plus the charge for 10 days in MIQ. I think for a family staying in 1 room that's around $5000 but I could be wrong.

Free for those who left NZ before 12:01 am 11 aug 2020, and intend to stay for 90 days of longer.

https://www.miq.govt.nz/being-in-managed-isolation/charges-for-managed-isolation/who-needs-to-pay-for-managed-isolation/

Otherwise $2530 for 2 adults, 2 kids in one room (for NZ citizens for 10 days):

https://www.miq.govt.nz/being-in-managed-isolation/charges-for-managed-isolation/charges-for-nz-citizens-and-permanent-residents/

Scott3

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#2854525 21-Jan-2022 11:04

wellygary:

Yeah, but they would be paying that anyway if they could get an MIQ voucher, so its the same either way,,,

I expect that airlines will now be asked to only deplane NZ bound arrivals, and transit PAX will remain on board,,,

Yip. Plenty of people would pay the likes of $20k for a MIQ voucher.

In the case families case, they were paying accommodation overseas every night for an extended period, waiting to come home. So much so that they were in the process of relocating to a lower cost of living country.

Regarding keeping people on a plane, many transit stops, like the one in this case (aussie to fiji) would involve a aircraft change.

I imagine it would be tricky legally to stop a NZ citizen from walking off a plane with the air-bridge connected and other other passengers departing. Might trigger kidnapping laws etc. Also I think airlines are reluctant to fly with (unescorted) passengers who don't want to be onboard, for safety reasons.

cruxis

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#2854529 21-Jan-2022 11:21

Quite interesting, If a bunch of kiwis stuck in Austrialia pooled their money, charted a private plane, or even a ship. Landed in NZ without MIQ vouchers, could they be deported back to Aussie? Surprised it has not been atempted yet.

wellygary

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#2854534 21-Jan-2022 11:28

cruxis:

Quite interesting, If a bunch of kiwis stuck in Austrialia pooled their money, charted a private plane, or even a ship. Landed in NZ without MIQ vouchers, could they be deported back to Aussie? Surprised it has not been atempted yet.

Hiring a Boat is the best option , (but it needs to be a NZ vessel as foreign small craft are basically banned at the moment)

But, if you bob around outside NZ waters or more than 10 days, you can avoid the need for MIQ totally

https://www.miq.govt.nz/travel-to-new-zealand/arriving-in-nz/

DS248

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#2854535 21-Jan-2022 11:29

cruxis:

Quite interesting, If a bunch of kiwis stuck in Austrialia pooled their money, charted a private plane, or even a ship. Landed in NZ without MIQ vouchers, could they be deported back to Aussie? Surprised it has not been atempted yet.

Already been done by boat (eg. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/27/a-catamaran-and-a-plan-desperate-to-get-home-new-zealanders-set-sail-across-the-tasman).

Not such a biggie, much of their isolation time spent on board during the trip or holding off Opua (border customs clearance is at Opua)

JPNZ

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#2854536 21-Jan-2022 11:31

Deadliest day so far in NSW today..

NSW = 25,168 cases and 46 deaths

Victoria = 18,167 cases and 20 deaths

Yesterdays numbers (not reported for Jan 21st yet)

Queensland = 16,812 and 9 deaths

South Australia = 3,777 cases and 11 deaths

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