2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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366 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2855251 23-Jan-2022 18:55

tdgeek:
Sup: Given when you go to the supermarket in the next 6 weeks, the patrons and staff will have asymptomatic omicron, or they would be forced to shop due to a lack of prep....well you want to be boosted in that type of massive outbreak.

We are literally all going to be exposed to clouds of virus, hundreds of thousands of infections.

Maximum protection protocols are now, the siren is sounding, the lights are flashing, follow the advice of the vaccine advisory group, end of.

Sorry but you are commenting that this is the plague. Do we want hundreds of infections of Delta or many more with the less dangerous Omicron? I respect and value your posts but fro what I read, Omicron is the Black Plague.

Not sure if I understand your point fully, however if you read alarm in my posts, sorry they're not to alarm, they are to be VERY clear that this situation is serious, and not one to second guess the health advice (not aimed at you, but people are giving contrary health advice when this is not that time).

We are about to confront our second worst national peace time crisis, it is not mild disease, it is milder, primarily it offers low harm to the vaccinated, this situation needs to be understood with some clarity

So yeah the tone of my posts about the urgency of boosting is to match the reality that omicron will find those of us who are going to struggle.

Look at Australia, this country will have to leave more Kiwis out of hospital than them....it is going to be a wee bit tough here mate.

Just keep swimming...

Sup

366 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2855254 23-Jan-2022 20:54

Jacinda got cut off in her family wagon, the Mercedes van they use....she was cut off in a car park by female antivaxxers driving across her exit.

Looked like Dip protection drove her onto the footpath to get away.

I keep warning people, Adern is our most vulnerable citizen right now and it is pretty disgusting.

Neve was probably in the family van.

Some one will attack her soon and they will try to kill her.

Just keep swimming...

freitasm

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Geekzone

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#2855256 23-Jan-2022 20:57

Anti-vaxxers are bio terrorists.

quickymart

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#2855257 23-Jan-2022 20:57

And for what? To prove their ridiculous point? These antivaxx morons (I'm looking at Brian Tamaki) somehow think they speak for "the entire country". Like I said a few pages back - he doesn't speak for me, nor do these clowns. Protest in your own house or something, no one else outside your nutty (little) group cares.

Scott3

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#2855265 23-Jan-2022 21:32

On the discussion of potentially bringing forward booster to three months:

If I was dictator, I wouldn't have made any change to booster timing today:

There was a massive rush on vaccinations today, and this is likely to continue for the next week. Wait time's approaching two hours were reported at some vaccination centers today.
Those between 3 and 4 months after their last primary dose still have fairly fresh vaccines that afford some level of protection (against severe disease).
With the above in mind, in my eyes, the highest priory for vaccines is those currently eligible. Primary doses, and boosters at 4 months+. Keeping the current criteria will give this group the best crack at easy access.
Primary doses seem to take longer to take effect than boosters (which there is evidence previously cited in the thread showing they take just 1 week to work).
In a week or so, the rush will have died down, and we can look at flowing other countries to a 3 months spacing.
We have something like four weeks before numbers start getting seriously out of hand, so cranking boosters out on the week of the 31st is good too.

Without reviewing any medical evidence, my gut feeling is that dropping the booster spacing to 3 months in a weeks time is the best play. The period in about 6 weeks time is going to really stress our supply chains and health system. Pulling out the stops to better protect a chunk of the community sounds like a good idea.

sir1963

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#2855266 23-Jan-2022 21:39

freitasm: Anti-vaxxers are bio terrorists.

I think they will be in for a hell of a shock when they find their GP will look at their vaccination status.

If you are unvaccinated you will NOT be allowed into the practice, you will be seen in your car.

Any of their anti-vax stupidity will see them removed from the practice rolls.

My place of work has said EVERYONE has to be vaccinated to be allowed on site.

Not only staff but any contractors, courier drivers, clients, etc etc etc.

No exceptions.

quickymart

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#2855267 23-Jan-2022 21:39

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-pm-urges-nzs-213000-unvaxxed-to-please-reconsider/B4OK6XOCRLF6BCZH2VOOFFVI2I/

Will this change anyone's mind? I certainly hope so.

Sharesies

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Scott3

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#2855268 23-Jan-2022 21:41

Sup:

Not sure if I understand your point fully, however if you read alarm in my posts, sorry they're not to alarm, they are to be VERY clear that this situation is serious, and not one to second guess the health advice (not aimed at you, but people are giving contrary health advice when this is not that time).

We are about to confront our second worst national peace time crisis, it is not mild disease, it is milder, primarily it offers low harm to the vaccinated, this situation needs to be understood with some clarity

So yeah the tone of my posts about the urgency of boosting is to match the reality that omicron will find those of us who are going to struggle.

Look at Australia, this country will have to leave more Kiwis out of hospital than them....it is going to be a wee bit tough here mate.

Omicron walks a worrying tightrope.

It is not worrying at a personal level to the bulk of the population. Young to middle age people with booster doses, seem (based on personal accounts of people I know) seem to get it very mild. Scratch in the throat, a bit of fatigue and that is about it. So little justification at a personal level (for most) for significant behavioral change.

But on a societal level, it's contagiousness means it will rapidly find the most venerable, and (based on NSW numbers), that will be enough to overload our health system.

Basically whatever we do, the outcome is not going to be pritty.

Good to see the a clear plan today about avoiding supply chain collapse with so many people isolating. In short that is what the phase's are. We start with long isolation periods to slow restrict the spread of the virus, with the periods to be revised down when we start to run low on workers.

Sup

366 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2855281 23-Jan-2022 21:59

Scott3:
On the discussion of potentially bringing forward booster to three months:

If I was dictator, I wouldn't have made any change to booster timing today:

There was a massive rush on vaccinations today, and this is likely to continue for the next week. Wait time's approaching two hours were reported at some vaccination centers today.

Those between 3 and 4 months after their last primary dose still have fairly fresh vaccines that afford some level of protection (against severe disease).

With the above in mind, in my eyes, the highest priory for vaccines is those currently eligible. Primary doses, and boosters at 4 months+. Keeping the current criteria will give this group the best crack at easy access.

Primary doses seem to take longer to take effect than boosters (which there is evidence previously cited in the thread showing they take just 1 week to work).

In a week or so, the rush will have died down, and we can look at flowing other countries to a 3 months spacing.

We have something like four weeks before numbers start getting seriously out of hand, so cranking boosters out on the week of the 31st is good too.

Without reviewing any medical evidence, my gut feeling is that dropping the booster spacing to 3 months in a weeks time is the best play. The period in about 6 weeks time is going to really stress our supply chains and health system. Pulling out the stops to better protect a chunk of the community sounds like a good idea.

Sounds like you would go OK as a benevolent dictator.
A woman getting her 1st shot today in our local pharmacy asked if she could get shot two in her other arm....I actually felt sorry for her.

Just keep swimming...

sir1963

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#2855282 23-Jan-2022 21:59

quickymart:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-pm-urges-nzs-213000-unvaxxed-to-please-reconsider/B4OK6XOCRLF6BCZH2VOOFFVI2I/

Will this change anyone's mind? I certainly hope so.

Maybe one or two, but not the majority.

Sad thing is by the time they get scared enough to jump it will be too late.

Even safer, those that pushed the conspiracies will not be held accountable for the misery they have created.

All of our family are or soon will be boosted , we have access to surgical masks.

I have left a flat empty (but furnished) so that if anyone in the family catches covid they can isolate there.

We have bought oximeter , etc etc for use if needed by the whole family.

Our daughter is pregnant so we are sure as hell not going to allow her to be put at risk, we have set up buddy systems for the whole family

Our houses are all no vax, no entry.

I have avoided a friend of my 2 door down because he is under going cancer treatment.

A little inconvenience is trivial compared to life.

Sup

366 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2855283 23-Jan-2022 22:10

Scott3:
Sup:

Not sure if I understand your point fully, however if you read alarm in my posts, sorry they're not to alarm, they are to be VERY clear that this situation is serious, and not one to second guess the health advice (not aimed at you, but people are giving contrary health advice when this is not that time).

We are about to confront our second worst national peace time crisis, it is not mild disease, it is milder, primarily it offers low harm to the vaccinated, this situation needs to be understood with some clarity

So yeah the tone of my posts about the urgency of boosting is to match the reality that omicron will find those of us who are going to struggle.

Look at Australia, this country will have to leave more Kiwis out of hospital than them....it is going to be a wee bit tough here mate.

Omicron walks a worrying tightrope.

It is not worrying at a personal level to the bulk of the population. Young to middle age people with booster doses, seem (based on personal accounts of people I know) seem to get it very mild. Scratch in the throat, a bit of fatigue and that is about it. So little justification at a personal level (for most) for significant behavioral change.

But on a societal level, it's contagiousness means it will rapidly find the most venerable, and (based on NSW numbers), that will be enough to overload our health system.

Basically whatever we do, the outcome is not going to be pritty.

Good to see the a clear plan today about avoiding supply chain collapse with so many people isolating. In short that is what the phase's are. We start with long isolation periods to slow restrict the spread of the virus, with the periods to be revised down when we start to run low on workers.

Yes, for the vulnerable it is worse than Delta, far worse.

Delta was well controlled by vaccines.

People seem to not understand omicron is more dangerous in terms of mortality in a country like ours...because it breaks through and will have a good crack at our unhealthy folk.

All I know is that when your govt tells you that you need to be ready to survive for two weeks, and they make supply chain plans, that you are in an unprecedented crisis.

Most people won't notice, but thousands will be battling this thing in a more worrying way. Many of them will get through, many vulnerable will make it, many more than those who don't, but it won't be easy for a big number of people.

Just keep swimming...

Scott3

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#2855284 23-Jan-2022 22:15

quickymart:

[Covid-19: PM urges NZ's 213,000 unvaxxed to 'please reconsider']

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-pm-urges-nzs-213000-unvaxxed-to-please-reconsider/B4OK6XOCRLF6BCZH2VOOFFVI2I/

Will this change anyone's mind? I certainly hope so.

Politician's have been urging people to be vaccinated for many months how, so I doubt it. Those (12+) who are not yet vaccines will either not receive such messaging (lots of people don't follow any news at all, or other than sports), or have decided to ignore the plea's.

I do hope that the arrival of omicron spurs a lot more people to get their primary dose. Should be able to see this in tomorrows first dose numbers.

Omicron effective changes changes the game. Previously the un-vaccinated in NZ were afforded a lot of protection, by both the alert level framework, and the vaccinated people around them (Herd immunity).

Omicron infects vaccinated people fairly easily, and is a lot more contagious. Means that basically everybody in NZ will catch the virus.

For those that where weighting up the risk to catching covid-19 vs the perceived risk of the vaccine, this changes the equation a lot.

Also the move to red for an extended time, may motivate some more people to get legitimate vaccine passes.

As the outbreak grows, and people start to personally know people getting sick, a few might decide getting vaccinated is a good idea.

Might see another round of mandates too. If I was dictator I would be going for an across the board mandate (largely enforced with a much higher tax rate for those vaccinated) at this point.

But I don't think there is anything that will change Q flag waving anti-vaxxers minds.

[edit], even before today first doses haven't dried up. Generally 1200 odd each weekday, had 700 yesterday. So over time, numbers are quietly growing, outreach programs are working etc.

Scott3

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#2855288 23-Jan-2022 22:28

Sup:

Yes, for the vulnerable it is worse than Delta, far worse.

Delta was well controlled by vaccines.

People seem to not understand omicron is more dangerous in terms of mortality in a country like ours...because it breaks through and will have a good crack at our unhealthy folk.

All I know is that when your govt tells you that you need to be ready to survive for two weeks, and they make supply chain plans, that you are in an unprecedented crisis.

Most people won't notice, but thousands will be battling this thing in a more worrying way. Many of them will get through, many vulnerable will make it, many more than those who don't, but it won't be easy for a big number of people.

Yip.

Hopefully we fair a little better than NSW in our omicron outbreak. (Pfizer, not AZ used here. More boosters than them 6 weeks ago (I assume), tightening rather than easing restrictions early on)

But I expect our outbreak in 6 weeks to look like somewhat like their's today. If this held true (scaled for population) we will have 120 people with covid 19 in icu (if possible given we only have cira 180 staffed beds, some of which are needed for other stuff), and 21 daily deaths.

Sup

366 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2855289 23-Jan-2022 22:29

quickymart:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-pm-urges-nzs-213000-unvaxxed-to-please-reconsider/B4OK6XOCRLF6BCZH2VOOFFVI2I/

Will this change anyone's mind? I certainly hope so.

That number has really shrunk over time. However it is still high enough to put a thousand people in hospital when combined with vaccinated unwell cases.

Could obviously be as high as two thousand plus admissions if say we were set up to treat ALL the people who need some minimal supplementary oxygen in such a way as to minimize in home deaths. It is well established fact in Covid treatment that the most life saving thing you can do is put thousands of people on simple oxygen therapy.

Like others have said, I think that number will shrink now because some Whanau are going to die.
The antivaxxers I know who changed their minds all did so after ICU stays for Whanau and Tangi.

Just keep swimming...

Oblivian

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#2855290 23-Jan-2022 22:35

Onenews facey post after the media standup.

The majority of people interacting are revolting. Both senses of the word.

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