2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2863201 7-Feb-2022 21:48

Seen elsewhere (Reddit), a very fitting description of the logic of the organisers and participants in this ridiculous, pointless "convoy":

They spend every day marinating in a stew of cognitive dissonance. Adding another bit of hypocrisy to the mix isn't going to slow them down one iota.

Being able to hold two contradictory ideas as true at the same time is a core requirement for supporting fascist governments.

You know, their enemy is both overwhelmingly strong and an imminent threat, but also pathetically weak and deserving of derision.

The protestors are both the most oppressed group in New Zealand, and also the only people capable of fighting the government head-on.

It's just self-contradictions all the way down with these nit-wits. They don't care.

freitasm

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#2863207 7-Feb-2022 22:00

Please use this thread in the Politics sub-forum to discuss the convoy.

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quickymart

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#2863212 7-Feb-2022 22:09

Sorry about that.

Paul1977

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#2863347 8-Feb-2022 09:38

This might overlap with the "politisation" thread, but it's really a medical question first and foremost...

Is there any research yet that demonstrates the following in regards to vaccination and Omicron:

If vaccinated are you less likely to become infected, or just less likely to have major systems?
If vaccinated and become infected are you less likely to spread it to others?

Where this crosses over into "politisation" is that the answers determine whether vaccine mandates do actually slow the spread. If both answers are "yes", then that's some justification for the mandates, but if the answers are "no" then the mandates shouldn't be required.

I'm doubled vaxxed and boosted, and I'm confident that offers me reasonable personal protection. But with Omicron does my vaccination status benefit the wider community (other than I'm less likely to take up a hospital bed)?

Senecio

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#2863358 8-Feb-2022 09:55

Paul1977:

But with Omicron does my vaccination status benefit the wider community (other than I'm less likely to take up a hospital bed)?

I'm not qualified to answer your other questions but this one is pretty straight forward I would have thought. Your vaccination status definitely benefits the wider community as you are less likely to become a burden on our health care system.

tdgeek

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#2863360 8-Feb-2022 09:58

Ive read that it reduces transmission, and a Google now says the same, but not peer reviewed

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#2863361 8-Feb-2022 10:00

Senecio:

Paul1977:

But with Omicron does my vaccination status benefit the wider community (other than I'm less likely to take up a hospital bed)?

I'm not qualified to answer your other questions but this one is pretty straight forward I would have thought. Your vaccination status definitely benefits the wider community as you are less likely to become a burden on our health care system.

And the other aspect is that because essential service mandated workers are fully boostered they are less likely to become severely ill therefore less strain running those essential services

Benoire

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#2863362 8-Feb-2022 10:02

tdgeek:

Ive read that it reduces transmission, and a Google now says the same, but not peer reviewed

I recall that under Delta and earlier, the MRNA vaccines appeared to reduce transmission as well as hospitalisation but there is a UK report somewhere I'm sure that I saw (can't remember hence the recall rather than fact) that suggested that Omicron wasn't controlled in the same way and that the vaccine would protect mostly against serious harm and hospitalisaiton but less so against transmission due to the mutations in the virus strain... Now from a human health perspective, reducing hte load on the health service is really the most critical thing in my view.

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#2863415 8-Feb-2022 10:16

Senecio:

Paul1977:

But with Omicron does my vaccination status benefit the wider community (other than I'm less likely to take up a hospital bed)?

I'm not qualified to answer your other questions but this one is pretty straight forward I would have thought. Your vaccination status definitely benefits the wider community as you are less likely to become a burden on our health care system.

Also the unvaccinated are more likely to suffer from long covid and deal with ongoing chronic health effects for months or years.

Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.

GV27

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#2863595 8-Feb-2022 14:05

Is there an announcement today or is it just the updated modelling?

Benoire

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#2863598 8-Feb-2022 14:10

There has been a media release for the number of cases, 202 across the country... as well as updated modelling.

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GV27

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#2863604 8-Feb-2022 14:16

Benoire:

There has been a media release for the number of cases, 202 across the country... as well as updated modelling.

Hmm so it was just the standard 1pm info and the modelling? I could have sworn I read there was some sort of actual change or decision being announced.

I've either had too much coffee or not enough.

Benoire

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#2863605 8-Feb-2022 14:17

I'd go with not enough, that's my take on every day life.

Paul1977

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#2863615 8-Feb-2022 14:55

Senecio:

I'm not qualified to answer your other questions but this one is pretty straight forward I would have thought. Your vaccination status definitely benefits the wider community as you are less likely to become a burden on our health care system.

cshwone:

And the other aspect is that because essential service mandated workers are fully boostered they are less likely to become severely ill therefore less strain running those essential services

Benoire:

Now from a human health perspective, reducing hte load on the health service is really the most critical thing in my view.

CYaBro:

Also the unvaccinated are more likely to suffer from long covid and deal with ongoing chronic health effects for months or years.

I think it's actually problematic having mandates based on any of the above because the only direct consequence is to the unvaccinated person. It can't be used as a legitimate justification of a policy restricting a persons ability to go places, or work certain jobs, if they are no more likely to pass Covid to others than a vaccinated person is. The extra strain on the health system potentially caused by the unvaccinated is a concern, but that's almost a separate issue - the mandates are based on the premise that an unvaccinated person is more likely to become infected, and then more likely to infect others.

tdgeek:

Ive read that it reduces transmission, and a Google now says the same, but not peer reviewed

That's problematic without peer review it could be byassed. There's a lot of anecdotal "evidence" of it spreading rapidly amongst the vaccinated and unvaccinated alike, but that obviously isn't peer reviewed either!

Of course it's very possible (even likely?) that being vaccinated does reduce your likelihood of becoming infected with Omicron, or of infecting others; but even the experts don't seem to be particularly certain any more. If being unvaccinated doesn't demonstrably cause increased transmission of Omicrom, are we now unfairly penalizing people for their (admittedly stupid) decision not to vaccinate?

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#2863662 8-Feb-2022 16:27

Some good chatter in here about vaccines and reducing spread.
If you take it back to basic principles of health then one can reasonably assume vaccines help.

It may be as simple as a vaccinated person mounting a quicker immune response (arguable but reasonable) and a vaccinated person mounting a more robust immune response (intuitively, without the data, the milder impact of disease strongly supports this).

Therefore you could reasonably extrapolate that a vaccinated person is going to present a
transmission threat for a shorter time (all things being equal with healthy immune system) the vaccines reduce the overall risk of spread.

It is also important to acknowledge that the more cases you have in hospital, escalates the personal health risk to healthcare workers.

And to add to what others have alluded to, protecting health care is not just about ensuring access for all, it is also about promoting ideal work conditions for the retention and mental well being of staff.

The CDCs shortened window for return to work by essential workers who have been infected is in part predicated on vaccines contributing to a shorter transmission window.

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