2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2873377 23-Feb-2022 16:51

mattwnz:

Has it even been scientifically tested that people won't catch it they are wearing a mask? .Especially considering Omicron is still so new and is far more contagious. There as masks and there are masks. A cloth mask doesn't provide much protection anyway. IMO it is all becoming stupid. IMO a lot of these people even with masks are still going to be infected due to them not being N95, and because it is alot to do with the actual indoor environment they are in. Especially as many classrooms probably aren't using special air filtration etc. They may have all the windows open, but they won't be able to do this when it gets colder.

Even if the windows are open, as long as the room is less than 100m2 (which is pretty bloody big) then it's the same rules as if it were an unventilated single bedroom. At least that's how I understand it.

Oblivian

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#2873378 23-Feb-2022 16:52

Paul1977:

So you've got people unable to work because they're following the rules, but schools making up their own definitions of close contacts so the students don't need to isolate?

Guess that's one of those 'depends' cases. But it sure reads that way from that example at least.

Pre P2, there was 56 families stuck at home from the dunedin cases alone.

I would imagine they would want to read it in their favour so as to not lose staff and or need to switch to mixed home based learning.

There's 300+ schools with cases now. Or effected families from it.

CokemonZ

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#2873386 23-Feb-2022 17:03

Oblivian:

Paul1977:

So you've got people unable to work because they're following the rules, but schools making up their own definitions of close contacts so the students don't need to isolate?

Guess that's one of those 'depends' cases. But it sure reads that way from that example at least.

Pre P2, there was 56 families stuck at home from the dunedin cases alone.

I would imagine they would want to read it in their favour so as to not lose staff and or need to switch to mixed home based learning.

There's 300+ schools with cases now. Or effected families from it.

It has to be about keeping the schools open as long as possible.

If the teachers have to isolate with every positive, well may as well shut them all down now.

This way they can keep people out working for as long as possible.

Whether thats a good idea or not is yet to be seen.

Oblivian

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#2873389 23-Feb-2022 17:09

mattwnz:

Has it even been scientifically tested that people won't catch it they are wearing a mask? .Especially considering Omicron is still so new and is far more contagious. There as masks and there are masks. A cloth mask doesn't provide much protection anyway. IMO it is all becoming stupid. IMO a lot of these people even with masks are still going to be infected due to them not being N95, and because it is alot to do with the actual indoor environment they are in. Especially as many classrooms probably aren't using special air filtration etc. They may have all the windows open, but they won't be able to do this when it gets colder.

Here's the thing. You're still going on opinions who said they're stupid and focusing on the single measure.

They were stupid, then they were smart, then they were stupid again. Evolution. Or 'who you ask' applies here.

Back to think for self logic - Put something over your mouth. You no longer projectile droplet forward the same quantity.

For school kids, they may or may not be jabbed like the 94%? adult population. So what's the last line layer when it comes to sitting down in a room and facing the back of a head of someone for an hr at a time?.

Not that it actually matters, they take them off on the bus, in the car, at maccas, at lunch. And still huddle together. Unlike adults who tend to consider avoiding contact.

But I'm pretty sure in the case of close proximity schooling ANYTHING is better than nothing. Even if it only blocks 1-5% of your exhale. It's still 1-5% less than the one without.

(Along with being jabbed to help lower the chance of taking hold in your body and subsequently having anything to even bother needing to block.)

So what do we do with kids? send them with nothing? No. You still try to minimize the chance of bodily secretions out the nose and mouth for an hour at a time you can. Layering with as many attempts as possible.

And the solution in that situation other than send them home is.....

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#2873403 23-Feb-2022 17:41

freitasm:

For those talking about how mild Omicron is... Who is dying of COVID amid omicron surge and widespread vaccine availability? - ABC News

I'd like to know where they got the following information from:

Infectious disease doctors say it is still mainly unvaccinated people, most of whom are in their 30s and 40s with no underlying health issues, who are dying.

It doesn't gel with the official statistics (this is the weekly stats in the US) for that age range.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm

I have frequent contact with colleagues in the U.S. (mainly TX/NC) and they say it's older/old folks and people who have comorbidities (especially morbid obesity) are the ones who they known who died lately.

Oblivian

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#2873405 23-Feb-2022 18:02

Tvnz picking p3/changes announced tomorrow

So those 10/7 close/secondary might not be the same in 2 days...

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cshwone

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#2873411 23-Feb-2022 18:35

mattwnz:

Buster:

I think we are close to Red Phase 3 now so close contact isolation times are about to be reduced to, like you say, keep work places open.

I am a bit confused as to why we have moved to this phase so early . This outbreak is still in early stages, so why not just move to this stage when they went to stage 2 if they are going this early to keep work places open. Stage 3 will likely increase the infection rate, rather than flattening the cure as a much as possible. Many people are shielding anyway and not going out and about, so the current response in at least the next few months is not the best economic response.

I also noticed that there are no locations of interest on the map in the Wairarapa despite their being quite a lot of cases, I think 16 today, and there were 10 in a few schools last week, and otheres reported in previous days. Are they now not bothering to update the locations of interest? Is it because people don't want to be forced to isolate? What the point of scanning now, if they aren't updating the locations of interest where there are relatively low number of cases still?

Ref the first bolded statement I think you are getting ahead of yourself here. AFAIK we are at Stage 2.

Ref the second bolded bit. I totally agree. I understand that both Lone Star Masterton and the Screening Room Masterton closed for deep cleans earlier this week. Why on earth haven't they been named as LOI if that was the case.

About this time last week when cases started appearing we asked the question of why there were no LOI's. The answer we got was that they were all school related. Round here kids, when they finish school, head to dairies or the Supermarkets or Cafes. They don't just wake up, go to school, come back from school and go to sleep

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#2873423 23-Feb-2022 19:10

Re LOI's, we have 20,000+ active cases about now? How many LOI's is that? How many people scan the LOI webpage daily? We are/will be told, look after yourself, if you are sick as, go to Hospital. Make those around you aware (self contact tracing) How many people scan? The bottom line is, take care of yourself and your whanau. Rightly or wrongly, the volume of cases causes that, and thank God its not all Delta. And IIRC Delta is 30% of current cases

Be safe, and hunker down

Jase2985

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#2873489 23-Feb-2022 19:37

and LOI's that turn up a week after the fact are useless, which is what a lot of them have been for the past month or more

tdgeek

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#2873494 23-Feb-2022 19:43

Jase2985:

and LOI's that turn up a week after the fact are useless, which is what a lot of them have been for the past month or more

Agree. When its in runaway mode, add time to get symptoms, add in not many will get tested when lines are 2 hours long, there must be a huge lag, so LOI's become historical. Numbers are too high to manage in close to real time, so just assume its everywhere, and go from there. Some experts say its 8X more than what tests show, and I believe that, at least.

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#2873536 23-Feb-2022 21:18

I've noticed a significant drop in both scanning and mask wearing in shops etc around here. I think people are starting to just give up and I doubt testing or isolation requirements are going to be adhered to very well.

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gzt

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#2873550 23-Feb-2022 21:58

This started a while back when the government started down this track. Mixed messaging imo. Some people don't know the difference between a live with it strategy and no precautions at all.

mattwnz

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#2873568 23-Feb-2022 23:33

tdgeek:

Re LOI's, we have 20,000+ active cases about now? How many LOI's is that? How many people scan the LOI webpage daily? We are/will be told, look after yourself, if you are sick as, go to Hospital. Make those around you aware (self contact tracing) How many people scan? The bottom line is, take care of yourself and your whanau. Rightly or wrongly, the volume of cases causes that, and thank God its not all Delta. And IIRC Delta is 30% of current cases

Be safe, and hunker down

The vast majority of cases however are in Auckland. Many other places the cases are still low, and if we are wanting to slow down the spread to flatten the curve for hospitals to cope better, then I would have though LOI in these areas was required. Hospitals in much of the country aren't as good as the main centres. Otherwise I do wonder what teh point of scanning in is if they aren't reporting the LOIs. Or maybe the entire contact tracing and scanning system is already overwhelmed because Aucklands cases are so high.?

I also heard on RNZ that more people in the US have died from Omicron, than have died from Delta. Apparently you can catch both, and even at the same time, so guessing many will get both over time.

mattwnz

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#2873570 23-Feb-2022 23:37

Geektastic: I've noticed a significant drop in both scanning and mask wearing in shops etc around here. I think people are starting to just give up and I doubt testing or isolation requirements are going to be adhered to very well.

I have noticed in the Wairarapa that compliance was bad compared to Wellington. When I drove through Masterton there were antivax people protesting outside the town hall with big professional looking antivax signs. It seems to be compliancy too, and perhaps people who are vaccinated are feeling like they have done all they can, and that they will only get a mild cold, so they aren't too worried about taking precautions, because they accept they are going to get it. Many will, but it is a bit of a lottery.

mattwnz

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#2873576 24-Feb-2022 01:35

gzt: This started a while back when the government started down this track. Mixed messaging imo. Some people don't know the difference between a live with it strategy and no precautions at all.

Yes, I think many people expected that once 90% of the eligible population was vaccinated, that a lot of the restrictions would end and people wouldn't need to isolate if they have been vaccinated. It would be treated more like a cold. I think people are now discovering that what we now have in many ways is worse than level 3 lockdowns. Many businesses are really struggling. Know of several businesses that maybe closing down. But what the UK is doing, where they are essentially going to be treating it like a cold, is maybe where we are heading when the infection rates drop significantly. But the messaging has been poor, and they seem to be making it up as they go along.

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