COVID-19 vaccination record / certificates

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#2817713 23-Nov-2021 13:19

Technofreak:

If that person is personally know to the person performing the check, which is likely a lot of the time, there will be no need to see ID. All they'll need to know is the pass is valid.

Even checking the pass is valid is optional.

invisibleman18

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#2817765 23-Nov-2021 13:23

Technofreak:

It's so they can verify it is actually you holding the device/QR code by comparing those details against a phot ID e.g. Driver's Licence/Passport

Your details are not recorded by the app just displayed for verification purposes

There's no requirement to check ID to verify it's that person though right? Other than situations that already do so (ie, bars or casinos that check ID to make sure people are old enough) I can't imagine the average cafe, shop, hairdresser etc are going to bother to ID check everyone that goes in. This seems to be open to a lot of abuse and I expect it won't be hard for unvaccinated people to get hold someone else's pass to show.

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#2817766 23-Nov-2021 13:25

Scott3:

Technofreak:

If that person is personally know to the person performing the check, which is likely a lot of the time, there will be no need to see ID. All they'll need to know is the pass is valid.

Even checking the pass is valid is optional.

Are you sure about that. It's my understanding that for a lot of businesses to operate at the levels of occupancy they desire (cafes, restaurants etc) they can only have vaccinated people as customers and they need to check on their covid vaccine status. If they don't view/scan the pass how do they do this?

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#2817767 23-Nov-2021 13:29

invisibleman18:

Technofreak:

It's so they can verify it is actually you holding the device/QR code by comparing those details against a phot ID e.g. Driver's Licence/Passport

Your details are not recorded by the app just displayed for verification purposes

There's no requirement to check ID to verify it's that person though right? Other than situations that already do so (ie, bars or casinos that check ID to make sure people are old enough) I can't imagine the average cafe, shop, hairdresser etc are going to bother to ID check everyone that goes in. This seems to be open to a lot of abuse and I expect it won't be hard for unvaccinated people to get hold someone else's pass to show.

I might be wrong but I think the penalties that go around allowing unvaccinated into a premises where you are operating as if all are vaccinated will be motivation enough for business to check and validate. You'll get used to lining up at the door, counter/reception with your covid pass and drivers licence.

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#2817770 23-Nov-2021 13:38

invisibleman18:

There's no requirement to check ID to verify it's that person though right? Other than situations that already do so (ie, bars or casinos that check ID to make sure people are old enough) I can't imagine the average cafe, shop, hairdresser etc are going to bother to ID check everyone that goes in. This seems to be open to a lot of abuse and I expect it won't be hard for unvaccinated people to get hold someone else's pass to show.

In short, yes. Not requiring the passes be verified and / or checked against ID seriously impacts the integrity of the system.

However, like presenting a fake or somebody else ID at a bar, I think it is considered fraud or some other kind of fairly serious dishonesty offending.

I would guess that like in the bars, police will have the power to enter premises, and check the vaccine passes of everybody inside, issuing fines to those who do not present a valid one (or somebody else's).

Obviously the legislation is not yet out.

Scott3

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#2817771 23-Nov-2021 13:42

freitasm:

Press release:

“Essential services such as supermarkets, access to health and disability services and primary and secondary education facilities cannot ask for proof of verification status and will not require a NZ Pass Verifier.

Such comments should be prefaced by: "The government intends to pass into law that"

It is really deceptive putting this in a press release with the current wording. Until the legislation is passed, the statement is outright false.

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#2817788 23-Nov-2021 14:36

Technofreak:

kiwifidget:

Is the other verifier tool an eyeball?

Yes

Not necessarily. There are other web apps (already linked a couple of times in this thread) that will also show if a QR code is valid or not.

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#2817790 23-Nov-2021 14:39

Scott3:

invisibleman18:

There's no requirement to check ID to verify it's that person though right? Other than situations that already do so (ie, bars or casinos that check ID to make sure people are old enough) I can't imagine the average cafe, shop, hairdresser etc are going to bother to ID check everyone that goes in. This seems to be open to a lot of abuse and I expect it won't be hard for unvaccinated people to get hold someone else's pass to show.

In short, yes. Not requiring the passes be verified and / or checked against ID seriously impacts the integrity of the system.

However, like presenting a fake or somebody else ID at a bar, I think it is considered fraud or some other kind of fairly serious dishonesty offending.

I would guess that like in the bars, police will have the power to enter premises, and check the vaccine passes of everybody inside, issuing fines to those who do not present a valid one (or somebody else's).

Obviously the legislation is not yet out.

As mentioned before, you are not required to use it but if you want to run the business with a certain number of patrons inside then you must confirm they are vaccinated, which is pretty much impossible without the verifier.

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#2817802 23-Nov-2021 15:08

I just installed the the Covid pass checker app on my (Android) Samsung Z Fold3 so I could check the printed versions of our certificates. App works perfectly when Fold3 is closed, but when I try to use it open, the app crashes.

Edit: Never mind it seems to work open or closed now. Only works on the domestic QR code, which makes sense I guess.

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Scott3

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#2817803 23-Nov-2021 15:09

Technofreak:

Are you sure about that. It's my understanding that for a lot of businesses to operate at the levels of occupancy they desire (cafes, restaurants etc) they can only have vaccinated people as customers and they need to check on their covid vaccine status. If they don't view/scan the pass how do they do this?

Yes, Prime minster said in the press conference yesterday that for businesses using the verifer app would be optional.

Businesses must simply "operate a vaccine certificate system" - seems they don't need to follow basic fraud preventing steps.

I'm disappointed too.

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#2817808 23-Nov-2021 15:18

Scott3:

Yes, Prime minster said in the press conference yesterday that for businesses using the verifer app would be optional.

Businesses must simply "operate a vaccine certificate system" - seems they don't need to follow basic fraud preventing steps.

I'm disappointed too.

Correct use of the app is optional. The business may have developed their own verifier or they use one made by someone else like the online web based one that is available, or they may choose to view the paper based option.

I don't see how any of these methods differ in preventing fraud. All options require the use of a photo ID to be used alongside the verification of vaccination status, however that is done.

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#2817817 23-Nov-2021 15:24

freitasm:

As mentioned before, you are not required to use it but if you want to run the business with a certain number of patrons inside then you must confirm they are vaccinated, which is pretty much impossible without the verifier.

Press conference yesterday strongly implied otherwise. "While a business will not be mandated to use the verifier, it is a very handy tool."

https://youtu.be/sw4ZkhTeGgw?t=98

Crazy in my mind. Guess we will know for sure what the rules are when the order / legislation comes out.

Scott3

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#2817821 23-Nov-2021 15:29

Technofreak:

Correct use of the app is optional. The business may have developed their own verifier or they use one made by someone else like the online web based one that is available, or they may choose to view the paper based option.

I don't see how any of these methods differ in preventing fraud. All options require the use of a photo ID to be used alongside the verification of vaccination status, however that is done.

In my mind, gold standard would be scanning the pass QR code, and checking the name & DOB encrypted into the QR code against government issued ID.

Seems both of the following are optional:

Scanning the QR code with a verifier (based on PM statement yesterday).
Checking photo ID (based on the use of the word "May" in the context to photo ID on the paper based domestic pass. For comparison the international pass says not valid without photo ID.

Of course we will only find out the detail when the legislation and/or order is made public.

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#2817822 23-Nov-2021 15:32

Good thread here - https://twitter.com/andrewtychen/status/1462917008891146253?s=21

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#2817823 23-Nov-2021 15:34

@Scott3:

freitasm:

As mentioned before, you are not required to use it but if you want to run the business with a certain number of patrons inside then you must confirm they are vaccinated, which is pretty much impossible without the verifier.

Press conference yesterday strongly implied otherwise. "While a business will not be mandated to use the verifier, it is a very handy tool."

https://youtu.be/sw4ZkhTeGgw?t=98

Crazy in my mind. Guess we will know for sure what the rules are when the order / legislation comes out.

"Tomorrow we will also launch the verifier app for businesses who require proof of vaccine pass for entry and to operate. While businesses will not be mandated to use the verifier, it is a very handy tool."

I understand that the tool exists and businesses may use it or not. You can use any other tool. Businesses are still required to have proof of vaccine pass to allow people to enter premises.

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