Urgent food warning and advice requested

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Awrrr
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#2412980 5-Feb-2020 12:19

networkn:

It does, but probably not what you think it does.

I think the course of action now is the wait for MPI (though I believe they will take little to no action here due to the age of the cans).

You could contact the relevant authorities and push for dates to be added to cans, it may help.

Beyond that, not really much more than can be added...

Agree, but if you ever have one of these go off in your face, you may feel more strongly about it. The cans did not just pop. These were forceful, potentially dangerous, explosions. I will do what I can to pursue this because I think it does matter. For the moment, though, I am done here. If there are future developments, I will report on them.

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Jase2985

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#2413022 5-Feb-2020 12:54

Rikkitic:

sbiddle:

In an earlier life I was involved pretty extensively with the creation of HAACP food safety programs and had a lot of dealings with FSANZ. I know a lot about why things were created the way they were especially the development of the first ANZFA joint food standard.

If you have issues with the law then write to FSANZ or your local MP and ask they push for the changes you want.

I am prepared to do that. Since you know a lot about why things were created the way they were, can you explain to me why there is no date of manufacture requirement? I really don't understand that. It seems pretty obvious to me. Even if most consumers don't bother to read the labels, why withhold this information from those that do?

this is turning into another one of those threads

you had a bad experience, this time out of just plain old bad luck, but you want companies to change the way they do things to suit the way you think is best.

seems to be a common theme.

Ge0rge

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#2413034 5-Feb-2020 13:14

Jase2985:
Rikkitic:

sbiddle:

In an earlier life I was involved pretty extensively with the creation of HAACP food safety programs and had a lot of dealings with FSANZ. I know a lot about why things were created the way they were especially the development of the first ANZFA joint food standard.

If you have issues with the law then write to FSANZ or your local MP and ask they push for the changes you want.

I am prepared to do that. Since you know a lot about why things were created the way they were, can you explain to me why there is no date of manufacture requirement? I really don't understand that. It seems pretty obvious to me. Even if most consumers don't bother to read the labels, why withhold this information from those that do?

this is turning into another one of those threads

you had a bad experience, this time out of just plain old bad luck, but you want companies to change the way they do things to suit the way you think is best.

seems to be a common theme.

Rikkitic isn't the only one here who has mentioned it being odd that at least the date of manufacturing isn't written on tins. I personally write in vivid on the tops of mine so they get rotated. It would be much better if it was done at the factory.

Rikkitic

Awrrr
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#2413035 5-Feb-2020 13:16

Jase2985:

this is turning into another one of those threads

you had a bad experience, this time out of just plain old bad luck, but you want companies to change the way they do things to suit the way you think is best.

seems to be a common theme.

I don't want this thread to go off the rails but I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. There is nothing wrong with trying to change things for the better. The reason there are food and sanitation standards today is because of changes made in the past due to consequences of company misbehaviour, either intentional or by ignorance, and protests about that.

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robjg63

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#2413036 5-Feb-2020 13:16

hsvhel:

I just read 4 pages of conversation about cans.........and i don't know how i feel about that😂

Its five pages now, but I think I know how I feel about it:

1) All cans *should* have a production date printed on them - Poor job from manufacturers that dont mark them

2) MPI are not going to issue a recall for 10 year old cans of food

3) The rip tab tops are a point of weakness so that's why they exploded - though what made them start brewing up??. It would take even more (dangerous) pressure for a non easy open can to pop.

4) Its a really good idea to use up ALL your pantry items every couple of years - Just use them ALL up and dont buy anything else until the shelves are empty.

Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

Goosey

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#2413037 5-Feb-2020 13:18

Reading the thread. Oak BB's in Ham sauce sound like they are at least 5+ years old.

I would assume they were well past their best before....

Given 'ham' is the content... this would be the cause of the 'blown' can.

Was the can dented? Dented cans dramtically reduce the quality of the product.

Yes, Oak is a Watties sub brand.

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#2413058 5-Feb-2020 14:01

robjg63:

hsvhel:

I just read 4 pages of conversation about cans.........and i don't know how i feel about that😂

Its five pages now, but I think I know how I feel about it:

1) All cans *should* have a production date printed on them - Poor job from manufacturers that dont mark them

2) MPI are not going to issue a recall for 10 year old cans of food

3) The rip tab tops are a point of weakness so that's why they exploded - though what made them start brewing up??. It would take even more (dangerous) pressure for a non easy open can to pop.

4) Its a really good idea to use up ALL your pantry items every couple of years - Just use them ALL up and dont buy anything else until the shelves are empty.

I agree on all four points. Though I think a safety recall notice for 10yo canned goods is still within the realm of appropriate. I mean, if it were for a box of cereal no, but cans are things that have a legitimate chance of staying in pantries for 10 years, and an explosion isn't really appropriate behaviour for them.

I would have assumed that if the seal of the can were weak enough to compromise the product it would also be weak enough to allow slow venting, but... maybe not?

networkn

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#2413061 5-Feb-2020 14:07

I'd argue that whilst people MIGHT keep tins for 10 years, they shouldn't. Surely, we expect people to employ common sense in their own self-interest? Otherwise, we are back to ensuring people can't hurt themselves by having MPI collect all food items over a certain age.

If people operate outside of expected reasonable behaviour then.....

Again, as sbiddle said, science....

The percentage of people of people who keep tins for 10 years (and probably a proper tin without a rip lid may not have even had this issue in the first place) who would do so even with a date printed on the lid is pretty high IMO.

Rikkitic

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#2413070 5-Feb-2020 14:33

networkn:

I'd argue that whilst people MIGHT keep tins for 10 years, they shouldn't. Surely, we expect people to employ common sense in their own self-interest? Otherwise, we are back to ensuring people can't hurt themselves by having MPI collect all food items over a certain age.

You keep missing the point here. I don't know if it is intentional or not.

The point is that there was no way of knowing how old those cans were because there was no date information on them.

You almost make it sound like I went out of my way to keep cans for 10 years so I could complain about them when they exploded. I don't know why it is so hard to understand what happened here, but I will try once more:

1. I nudged a can while looking for something else and it exploded.

2. After I recovered from my shock, I picked up another can of the same item to inspect it and it exploded.

3. I carefully searched and removed all cans of this product. A third exploded and a fourth was bulging.

4. Important: I found different cans of Oak beans, some with the ham sauce, some with tomato sauce. Initially I confused the two. All said Oak Baked Beans on them. I knew at least some of the cans were recent purchases because I remembered buying them. I assumed all potentially had the same issue.

5. Eventually I realised the issue was confined to the cans in ham sauce. There were four of them. I don't know who bought them or when. They were just in the cupboard with the others.

6. If these cans had had dates on them, I would have immediately realised there was a problem with them. As it was, I had no way of distinguishing them from much more recent purchases, other than the fact that they were in ham sauce.

7. In order for people to employ common sense in their own self-interest, they need to have access to information that makes this possible. My argument, which at least some here agree with, is that there should be date information on the cans. That is all.

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Oblivian

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#2413071 5-Feb-2020 14:38

networkn:

Surely, we expect people to employ common sense in their own self-interest? Otherwise, we are back to ensuring people can't hurt themselves by having MPI collect all food items over a certain age.

If people operate outside of expected reasonable behaviour then.....

Artists impression of something I saw once, after H&S changes made a large structural pole in the middle of the room a 'hazard' that needed to be identified and items put around it to stop people smacking into it.

Apparently this day of age, taking self responsibility is not enough. Someone else should always be doing it for us.

mattwnz

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#2413103 5-Feb-2020 15:21

Goosey:
Reading the thread. Oak BB's in Ham sauce sound like they are at least 5+ years old.

I would assume they were well past their best before....

Given 'ham' is the content... this would be the cause of the 'blown' can.

Was the can dented? Dented cans dramtically reduce the quality of the product.

Yes, Oak is a Watties sub brand.

I don't think cans have best before dates on them. I know someone who recently opened a tin dating back to 2007 and they lived. The food in it was fine. but different cans appear to be manufactured differently, and also depend in on country of manufacturer. Since have zinc coating inside while others have white lacquer.

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jonathan18

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#2413156 5-Feb-2020 16:10

Goosey:

Reading the thread. Oak BB's in Ham sauce sound like they are at least 5+ years old.

I would assume they were well past their best before....

The OP stated the exploding tins did not have any date - whether it be a BB or a packaged date - on them; this is not a requirement of canned goods. Many do, but it's not a requirement. Without that date how should have the OP known the beans were indeed 'well past their best before'?

How it cannot be seen as reasonable to expect manufacturers to provide something as simple as a 'packaged on...' date is beyond me - it seems an incredibly basic 'tool' to provide consumers with to allow them to manage their food storage, and help at least mitigate the risk attached dodgy canned goods.

Given how slowly the wheels of bureaucracy turn, I imagine if this ever does come to pass it won't be for ages; however, in the interim I would think there are a few of us here who will take this as a salutary lesson and start manually recording purchase dates on cans.

Also, some of the replies here are so unnecessarily hyperbolic and snarky; there's a real risk of this becoming yet another 'pile-on' thread, which starts attacking individuals (TBH, often the same individual) rather than debating the topic. Is this really necessary?

Rikkitic

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#2413163 5-Feb-2020 16:23

jonathan18:

The OP stated the exploding tins did not have any date - whether it be a BB or a packaged date - on them; this is not a requirement of canned goods. Many do, but it's not a requirement. Without that date how should have the OP known the beans were indeed 'well past their best before'?

How it cannot be seen as reasonable to expect manufacturers to provide something as simple as a 'packaged on...' date is beyond me - it seems an incredibly basic 'tool' to provide consumers with to allow them to manage their food storage, and help at least mitigate the risk attached dodgy canned goods.

Given how slowly the wheels of bureaucracy turn, I imagine if this ever does come to pass it won't be for ages; however, in the interim I would think there are a few of us here who will take this as a salutary lesson and start manually recording purchase dates on cans.

Also, some of the replies here are so unnecessarily hyperbolic and snarky; there's a real risk of this becoming yet another 'pile-on' thread, which starts attacking individuals (TBH, often the same individual) rather than debating the topic. Is this really necessary?

THANK YOU!!! And thanks for actually reading what I wrote.

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Geektastic

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#2413196 5-Feb-2020 17:10

Rikkitic:

Geektastic: Remind me not to irritate you....

May I offer you some beans? 😄

Yes, please - but only Heinz!

Geektastic

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#2413197 5-Feb-2020 17:11

jonathan18:

Goosey:

Reading the thread. Oak BB's in Ham sauce sound like they are at least 5+ years old.

I would assume they were well past their best before....

The OP stated the exploding tins did not have any date - whether it be a BB or a packaged date - on them; this is not a requirement of canned goods. Many do, but it's not a requirement. Without that date how should have the OP known the beans were indeed 'well past their best before'?

How it cannot be seen as reasonable to expect manufacturers to provide something as simple as a 'packaged on...' date is beyond me - it seems an incredibly basic 'tool' to provide consumers with to allow them to manage their food storage, and help at least mitigate the risk attached dodgy canned goods.

Given how slowly the wheels of bureaucracy turn, I imagine if this ever does come to pass it won't be for ages; however, in the interim I would think there are a few of us here who will take this as a salutary lesson and start manually recording purchase dates on cans.

Also, some of the replies here are so unnecessarily hyperbolic and snarky; there's a real risk of this becoming yet another 'pile-on' thread, which starts attacking individuals (TBH, often the same individual) rather than debating the topic. Is this really necessary?

Why is it considered appropriate not to date food just because it is in a tin?

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