2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2468883 23-Apr-2020 21:00

Handle9:
If you wanted to support people during hard times you'd do it in a different way to cutting a cheque for the entire tax paying population (except for none WASP immigrants of course).

That should really be:

If you wanted to support people in a country that isn't the US during hard times you'd do it in a different way to cutting a cheque for the entire tax paying population

I don't know if the US has any other choice, things like SNAP, formerly Food Stamps, barely works for the existing "customer" base and is a cumbersome, clunky paper-cash-equivalent system, and look at the chaos in their unemployment system at even a fraction of the total population. I cant imagine how you'd provide financial relief to the masses in the US.

You also need to have the Glorious Leader's name prominently associated with it, which means you pretty much have to mail everyone cheques.

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#2468891 23-Apr-2020 21:23

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/22-04-2020/the-cook-islands-are-the-worlds-number-one-covid-19-success-story/

Wish I was in Raro! An interesting, non-NZ-centric view on covid-19.

Follow the link in the above for a report on what mandatory quarantine is like.

neb

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#2468975 24-Apr-2020 01:53

tdgeek

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#2468983 24-Apr-2020 07:07

Handle9:

tdgeek:

Well said. Some poorly run businesses may fold, leaving the others to do better. Thats life.

That's a pretty dumb statement. Saying a business that targets overseas tourism is poorly run is both dumb and callous.

Where did I say overseas tourism? I said poorly run businesses. Two examples, Burger King and Virgin Australia. already in dire straits. Much better to allow them to fold as they would anyway and leave a better playing field for the remaining, well run and viable businesses. Unless you feel we should plough Government funds to support rocky busineses? Id prefer Government support to be aimed at well run and viable businesss that for not fault of their own are in deep strife.

Geektastic

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#2469013 24-Apr-2020 09:03

Yep. If they focus on one target market, that's an all eggs in the basket issue. For those that have been to the Hawaiis and Vegas's, you get nice deals off season. Do we do that here?

We don’t really have “out of season” here because the season never ends. At least, with international tourism it didn’t.

Firstly, NZ is unusual in that we tend to have a large period when many are on holiday at Christmas. Most western nations stopped doing that decades ago and leave is much more spread over the year. Second, some people like summer weather for holidays and some want to ski, or just prefer cooler and more scenic weather with snow etc for holidays.

Shoulder seasons were lowest, and I did some work with Tourism NZ who were trying to smooth that.

Thirdly, there are a fair few kiwis who can afford to pay the prices. Don’t assume nobody ever paid it because they certainly did.

I was talking to the manager of a six star lodge yesterday and his view is that they will just target HNW kiwis until the international market returns. They won’t even consider going for the budget market because it would destroy their brand image.

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#2469021 24-Apr-2020 09:17

Geektastic:

We don’t really have “out of season” here because the season never ends. At least, with international tourism it didn’t.

Firstly, NZ is unusual in that we tend to have a large period when many are on holiday at Christmas. Most western nations stopped doing that decades ago and leave is much more spread over the year. Second, some people like summer weather for holidays and some want to ski, or just prefer cooler and more scenic weather with snow etc for holidays.

Shoulder seasons were lowest, and I did some work with Tourism NZ who were trying to smooth that.

Thirdly, there are a fair few kiwis who can afford to pay the prices. Don’t assume nobody ever paid it because they certainly did.

I was talking to the manager of a six star lodge yesterday and his view is that they will just target HNW kiwis until the international market returns. They won’t even consider going for the budget market because it would destroy their brand image.

If a 6 star hotel wants to wait for international to resume, that's ok, no issue with that. I'm sure many tourist operators will rightly target Kiwis, revise prices to get tickets sold. Local tourism is larger than international, and I'm sure they can grow that more, the inability right now to go to most parts of the world will help that. Lower margin. But more tickets. Its likely that Australia will be open for tourists, some of us will go there, but many of them will come here. The way that new cases are going, tourism may be able to rebuild sooner than possibly imagined

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#2469022 24-Apr-2020 09:19

tdgeek:
Where did I say overseas tourism? I said poorly run businesses. Two examples, Burger King and Virgin Australia.

Businesses like Virgin that offer lower prices have to have smaller margins and/or lower costs. Having cash in the bank (or it's equivalent) to ride out a downturn is a cost... you have to borrow more to buy stuff. So cut-price airlines don't have a lot to spare. Think back to Kiwi Air, which couldn't survive a fault which IIRC grounded them for a week (plus aggressive pricing by AirNZ).

It's not that they are poorly run (and this kind of business*needs* to be better run to survive at all), just that it's not possible to run that kind of business through a sustained problem. The more cut-price you are, the smaller the problems that you can ride out.

So a wily operator like Richard Branson extracts his fortune from the business as quickly as possible, then presents the government with the problem; provide the needed cash or the business fails, people lose their jobs, and low cost airfares aren't available to the masses. Privatise profits, socialise losses. Capitalism at work.

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tdgeek

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#2469025 24-Apr-2020 09:22

frankv:
tdgeek:

Where did I say overseas tourism? I said poorly run businesses. Two examples, Burger King and Virgin Australia.

Businesses like Virgin that offer lower prices have to have smaller margins and/or lower costs. Having cash in the bank (or it's equivalent) to ride out a downturn is a cost... you have to borrow more to buy stuff. So cut-price airlines don't have a lot to spare. Think back to Kiwi Air, which couldn't survive a fault which IIRC grounded them for a week (plus aggressive pricing by AirNZ).

It's not that they are poorly run (and this kind of business*needs* to be better run to survive at all), just that it's not possible to run that kind of business through a sustained problem. The more cut-price you are, the smaller the problems that you can ride out.

So a wily operator like Richard Branson extracts his fortune from the business as quickly as possible, then presents the government with the problem; provide the needed cash or the business fails, people lose their jobs, and low cost airfares aren't available to the masses. Privatise profits, socialise losses. Capitalism at work.

Perhaos. VA was already in trouble before the virus though, as was Burger King, my other example. Darwinism works in businesses as well.

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#2469044 24-Apr-2020 10:18

Travelling within NZ is not as bad as it seems when you compare to other countries aka Europe (our entertainment and attractions mostly reasonable priced, including food), but there's one fundamental problem: accomodation. Or should I say lack of it. During any public holiday or summer months, if you did not book 3-4 months in advance - you are out of luck or pay ridiculous fees.

Visite south island over xmas holidays 3 times now and every time accomodation is nightmare to find. 3 years ago on Xmas eve and Xmas day we had to travel from ChCh to west coast because there was no accommodation available between ChCh (we did not want to stay in the city) and Mt Cook for under $1000 a night.

Winter in Queenstown, I would not comment on flights fees (midweek 2k return for 2 is ridiculous as it seems in August) but accomodation, nothing under $300-400 a night in hotels/motels (2 adults). AirBnB helped, but still just under $200/night for an ensuite room. We lived next to 2 motels which were empty as. But trip to ski fields was cheap as chips including rentals.

I hope attitude would change in favour of price flexibility, if they want my money.

helping others at evgenyk.nz

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#2469083 24-Apr-2020 11:04

Use Of Drug Boosted By Trump, Fox News Not Borne Out By Science

Rachel Maddow | MSNBC

Rachel Maddow reports on a nationwide study finding that hydroxychloroquine, the drug persistently promoted by Fox News and Donald Trump, not only did not show benefits compared to standard care but saw more deaths, as well as other experts emphasizing insufficient clinical data and a lack of scientific merit to support the drug's use, and admonishes the media for continuing to air Trump's misinformation about the deadly coronavirus.

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#2469094 24-Apr-2020 11:18

Trump & Vegas Mayor Compete for Who's Crazier

Jimmy Kimmel’s Quarantine Monologue

debo

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#2469112 24-Apr-2020 11:26

kingdragonfly: Use Of Drug Boosted By Trump, Fox News Not Borne Out By Science

Unfortunately the science is not borne out by science either. Hydroxychloroquine was admitted to the more severe cases so they were a lot more likely to die. It is like saying that mechanical ventilators are not borne out by science because the death rate for people on them is higher than the people that are not on them.

Batman

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#2469113 24-Apr-2020 11:27

everybody is working on Covid. inc VU in Wellington

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/nz-scientist-behind-frontrunner-covid-19-treatment

NumPy

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#2469117 24-Apr-2020 11:34

debo:

kingdragonfly: Use Of Drug Boosted By Trump, Fox News Not Borne Out By Science

Unfortunately the science is not borne out by science either. Hydroxychloroquine was admitted to the more severe cases so they were a lot more likely to die. It is like saying that mechanical ventilators are not borne out by science because the death rate for people on them is higher than the people that are not on them.

I heard oxygen is a killer too.

DS248

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#2469119 24-Apr-2020 11:36

Batman: everybody is working on Covid. inc VU in Wellington

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/nz-scientist-behind-frontrunner-covid-19-treatment

Hmm, "... human trials in Brazil".

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