2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2472253 27-Apr-2020 17:57

Dingbatt:

He didn’t specify the “World Leader” in the question. Just reinforces the media not letting the facts get in the way of their nyuk nyuk moment. Who was the intrepid reporter asking the question?

The reason why reporters ask some of these inane questions is laid out in Paul Brislens excellent twitter thread linked below. There is an element of entertainment but there is also a serious point to this. Some brain surgeon will undoubtably drink disinfectant and then the authorities will be blamed for not saying it was a dumb idea.

https://twitter.com/paulbrislen/status/1247713417617686528

Oblivian

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#2472254 27-Apr-2020 17:58

neb:
freitasm:

Just listening to the 1pm update. I echoed PM Jacinda Ardern's words and thanks to Dr Bloomfield. The man deserves a beer.

Does anyone have a link to the video, preferably direct (e.g. Youtube) without needing to spend ten minutes fiddling with NoScript on some news web site to get it to play?

Facey versions https://www.beehive.govt.nz/feature/covid-19-updates

YT versions https://www.youtube.com/user/minhealthnz/videos

Stu

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#2472255 27-Apr-2020 17:59

Oblivian:

Stu:

Over the weekend there has been at least one recreational/sport aircraft and another light aircraft having a bit of fun over the North Waikato/South Auckland area.

CAA air-worthiness certification allows for maintenance flights of small AC to keep their engineering cert valid

https://www.aviation.govt.nz/safety/publications/vector-magazine/before-your-essential-maintenance-flight/

Others have been helping move test samples to larger centres for testing, and top dressing (critical commercial work is OK)

So, barrel rolls, loops etc, are all good then? Cool

People often mistake me for an adult because of my age.

Keep calm, and carry on posting.

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#2472256 27-Apr-2020 17:59

frednz:

[Rules, rules, rules ..... why on earth do we need rules that try to tell us what we can and can't do. Why not rely on people just being sensible and not going to supermarkets etc if they are very old or frail?

As soon as you make a rule, it's often ambiguous and needs "interpretations" as to what people think it "really" means. Then the way the Police interpret the rule is different from the way the PM interprets the rule etc etc.

Why do we need rules? Because some people are dumb, venal and selfish.

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#2472257 27-Apr-2020 18:01

neb:
frednz:

Rules, rules, rules ..... why on earth do we need rules that try to tell us what we can and can't do. Why not rely on people just being sensible ...

If today is anything to go by and we follow this procedure then we're all screwed. You'd think the government had announced a switch to level 2 at lunchtime when I wasn't looking, there were normal weekday levels of traffic on the largest road next to us, far more than there had been for the last four weeks, and we heard several gatherings of people, meaning lots of voices talking together, as we went for a walk along a bush track. If this is what the last day of level 4 is like, we're going to need rules and strict enforcement backed by Australia-style spot fines or tomorrow will be chaos.

Exactly . I think part of the reason Australia is doing relatively well is because of the fines, so a higher proportion of people are more likely to stick to the rules, as hitting people in the pocket hurts many people more than being old off. In NZ we tend to have a culture amongst some people taking liberties.

Also if anyone watched todays press conference, right at the end was one of the most interesting things / concerns, during that meeting and which I hadn't heard any previous announcement on. IMO it is why these press conferences are so important, because it is often the question time that you learn far more detail about things, and todays questions shouldn't be wasted on stupid things like either 'bleech'; or about the 'health minister and his previous trips' . This was after a reporter queried the DG about a case that apparently tested positive before lockdown. They have now tested positive again more recently after they had apparently previously recovered. I understand that normally recovered people are not retested to make sure they have cleared it from their system. So whether they were reinfected, or their symptoymns just disappeared for a while and they still had it in their system? But if we aren't retesting recovered people before they are cleared, we wouldn't know anyway if people have recovered but still have it in their systems. Apparently there is only 1 case left like this and they can be traced back. But shows how important level 4 lockdown was. There is so much we still don't know about this virus.

This is another concern where a resthome work from I presume a resthome cluster has tested positive, and they were apparently living in a holiday park, which is itself another potentially large bubble. How could that occur? https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121297293/coronavirus-testing-for-holiday-park-residents-after-healthcare-worker-contracts-covid19 I think it will be these large bubbles where the virus can continue to live for potentially far longer than 2 or three cycles, due to the number of people in the bubble.

At one time they were saying that it can't be passed onto animals. Now we have seen that animals are getting it, including minks today https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-netherlands-mink/mink-found-to-have-coronavirus-on-two-dutch-farms-ministry-idUSKCN2280FZ

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#2472263 27-Apr-2020 18:08

neb:
freitasm:

Just listening to the 1pm update. I echoed PM Jacinda Ardern's words and thanks to Dr Bloomfield. The man deserves a beer.

Does anyone have a link to the video, preferably direct (e.g. Youtube) without needing to spend ten minutes fiddling with NoScript on some news web site to get it to play?

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#2472266 27-Apr-2020 18:11

@frednz:

Note that this talks about staying within the same or an adjacent region. So, we are allowed to travel to other regions provided they are adjacent to the one we are currently living in.

Please read again as it is very clearly NOT what you are saying. The section you're quoting clearly relates to ESSENTIAL PERSONAL only.

Please do not create your own rules and go around causing problems:

All persons within all regions of New Zealand must be isolated or quarantined as follows:

(a) to remain at their current home or place of residence, except for essential personal movement; and
(b) to maintain physical distancing, except—
(i) from any fellow resident; or
(ii) to the extent necessary to access, or provide, a business or service to which physical distancing infection control measures apply under clause 10; and
(c) if their home or place of residence is mobile, to keep that home or place of residence in the same general location, except to the extent they would be permitted (if it were not mobile) to leave the home or place of residence as essential personal movement.

(2) This requirement does not apply to a person while the Health Act (Managed Air Arrivals) Order or the Health Act (Other Arrivals) Order applies to that person.

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#2472268 27-Apr-2020 18:19

Batman:

Question:

In media conference for the past week: quoting directly "we have reached our goal of elimination", "we have no community transmission"

Why are we in Level 3: "high risk the disease is not contained" "new clusters might emerge"

Anybody can explain?

Level 3 is not the exact same criteria going backwards, as it is forwards.

And of course you do know what elimination means right? it is not eradication of the virus (zero cases). I actually think the PM using that term in the early days without clarifying it probably meant a lot of people expected zero new cases after lockdown.

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#2472313 27-Apr-2020 18:42

sbiddle:

Level 3 is not the exact same criteria going backwards, as it is forwards.

And of course you do know what elimination means right? it is not eradication of the virus (zero cases). I actually think the PM using that term in the early days without clarifying it probably meant a lot of people expected zero new cases after lockdown.

Eradication refers to cases in the world being reduced to zero. Elimination is getting it down to a predefined low number of cases, such as zero, within a certain geographic region and keeping it down. So eradication isn't possible until all countries get rid of it, so NZ can't 'eradicate ' it, we can only ever eliminate it.

https://vaccine-safety-training.org/elements/articles/eradication-difference.html

A & D are the correct answers

tdgeek

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#2472318 27-Apr-2020 18:57

neb:
frednz:

Rules, rules, rules ..... why on earth do we need rules that try to tell us what we can and can't do. Why not rely on people just being sensible ...

If today is anything to go by and we follow this procedure then we're all screwed. You'd think the government had announced a switch to level 2 at lunchtime when I wasn't looking, there were normal weekday levels of traffic on the largest road next to us, far more than there had been for the last four weeks, and we heard several gatherings of people, meaning lots of voices talking together, as we went for a walk along a bush track. If this is what the last day of level 4 is like, we're going to need rules and strict enforcement backed by Australia-style spot fines or tomorrow will be chaos.

The odds of getting infected is probably super low. But fine away, the more the merrier, the Consolidated Fund needs a boost. Worst case scenario IMO is we sit on 5 cases every day so we extend L3

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#2472365 27-Apr-2020 19:05

Dingbatt: I would love to know what is really going on in China (and what the true figures were). There are several channels I watch to get a wider range of news, but all have an axe to grind with the Chinese Communist Party when you dig a little deeper.

In the USA and UK there was effectively massive under-counting of covid related deaths for a number of reasons widely reported and not nefarious. These deaths have been statistically inferred recently when compared to past seasonal data. It is logical to expect similar issues for the initial outbreak in China.

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#2472367 27-Apr-2020 19:14

freitasm:
@frednz:

Note that this talks about staying within the same or an adjacent region. So, we are allowed to travel to other regions provided they are adjacent to the one we are currently living in.

Please read again as it is very clearly NOT what you are saying. The section you're quoting clearly relates to ESSENTIAL PERSONAL only.

Please do not create your own rules and go around causing problems:

IANAL but I don't think frednz got it wrong unless section 7 of the Legislation can only be read as recreation for a select few

7 Permissions for essential personal movement or recreation
A person is permitted to do any of the following as essential personal movement:
(a to d snipped)
Limited recreation purposes

(e)
leave their home or place of residence for the purpose of exercise or other recreation if—
(i)
it is done in an outdoor place appropriate for that kind of exercise or recreation that is readily accessible (including by using their vehicle) from their home or place of residence (and, in any case, is within the same or an adjacent region); and
(ii)
it is done in compliance with the requirements that relate to physical distancing (see clause 6(1)(b)) and the prohibition against congregating (see clause 11); and
(iii)
it does not involve flying manned aircraft, scuba-diving, hunting in motorised vehicles, or water-based activities involving sailing boats, motorised craft, or motorised equipment; and
(iv)
it does not involve any other activities that expose the participant to danger (taking account of their experience and abilities):

tdgeek

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#2472371 27-Apr-2020 19:24

Dingbatt:

tdgeek:

Wife and Mum in Law who now lives with us, both from Wuhan, say its opened up a lot now, pretty much everything open. BUT, they are still abiding by hand washing, masks, social distancing. Thats where the West falls apart. Its a lockdown, now its not. Beers anyone? Its still as much, if not more, a cautionary time.

I would love to know what is really going on in China (and what the true figures were). There are several channels I watch to get a wider range of news, but all have an axe to grind with the Chinese Communist Party when you dig a little deeper. In particular NTD which was set up by Falun Gong exiles. However the general trend seems to be under-reporting and official coverups of a scale that would have made the Chernobyl officials blush. I’m not expecting any response from you, but understand this is not questioning Chinese people but the CCP.

No issue with me responding. I steer clear of mass Chinese bias and mass anti Chinese bias. No issue of the negatives of CCP, which they are slowly reforming to what the West would see as satisfactory. Re the virus, no doubt it was under reported, etc. Also no doubt they dealt to it. The early word was only China could due to a dictatorship, but NZ and AUS have disproven that. You can also look at Japan. No issues there, but there was, it was all about covering up, so the Olympics can go ahead. You can also look at the UK who have failed to do anything till it was too late. And the US who had CT in Washington State before most of the population knew what Covid-19 was. Riots with guns to avoid a lockdown, not so great a culture. Yep, you are correct, but China doesnt have a monopoly of dubious behaviour. But because of their simple culture, they get stuff done, which the West cannot. So, they snaffled the virus, built amenities super quick, and everyone still manages safety precautions. They are a cautious people. The West knew what happened, had warning, but look where we are now. At least NZ and AUS acted in a non political and health based response. Super proud of that.

tdgeek

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#2472372 27-Apr-2020 19:29

mattwnz:

I think part of the reason Australia is doing relatively well is because of the fines, so a higher proportion of people are more likely to stick to the rules, as hitting people in the pocket hurts many people more than being old off. In NZ we tend to have a culture amongst some people taking liberties.

I dont see that. Their flouters are way ahead of ours. Both by frequency and by large scale. Watch TV ONE news tonight. Its probably lucky that cases are low, the odds of catching it are low, so the flouters most probably haven't caused any damage. If the NZ and AUS lockdowns were later or took longer, now that would be a problem. It seems that 3 weeks of L4 is the max we can do before big cracks appear. Which is terribly annoying for those of us that make sure we suck it up.

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#2472373 27-Apr-2020 19:34

NPR: Antibody tests go to market largely unregulated, warns US House subcommittee chair

Coronavirus antibody tests have garnered attention from officials as a potential tool to evaluate people's immunity to the illness. But the majority of companies creating the tests have had little to no regulatory oversight, according to the chair of the House Subcommittee on Economic and Consumer Policy.

Antibody tests, when accurate, can detect if someone has been exposed to the coronavirus in the past. More than 100 of these tests have been brought to market in the last several weeks, but the majority of them are not being tested by the Food and Drug Administration, said Raja Krishnamoorthi (D-Ill.) in an interview on Sunday with NPR's Weekend Edition.

Krishnamoorthi said that federal officials have told his subcommittee that companies selling antibody tests can go one of two routes as they seek to bring their products to market.

"One is to basically get authorization from the FDA to sell them, and four companies have taken advantage of that. And then the other is not to get any authorization from the FDA and go ahead and sell them, and 107 have taken advantage of that. ...There is absolutely no incentive for a junk test-maker to actually [give] their results to the FDA. ... A Wild West of unregulated tests are now proliferating, and our biggest concerns are that they are unreliable, inaccurate and in many cases making fraudulent claims about their testing results."

Even if test results are accurate, scientists still have many questions about what the presence of coronavirus antibodies means.

Some officials have suggested that people who have coronavirus antibodies in their blood would be safe from reinfection, or immune from the disease.

But scientists have urged skepticism about this idea. In a brief dated Friday, the World Health Organization cautioned, "There is currently no evidence that people who have recovered from COVID-19 and have antibodies are protected from a second infection."
...

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/26/845164212/antibody-tests-go-to-market-largely-unregulated-warns-house-subcommittee-chair

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