Starting The Carnivore Diet

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#3505374 23-Jun-2026 09:41

Batman:

dafman:

Batman:

that's why i'm interested in your lab results, artery health etc, unlike people who assume certainty without data.

I'm pretty sure the medical profession that warn against the carnivore diet do so with plenty of solid data.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12845189/

"Overall, the quality of evidence is very limited due to small sample sizes, short study durations, and the absence of control groups." Jan 2026

The author does say s/he thinks this is a terrible diet and cannot be recommended. But not from data but conjecture (aka "substantial risks").

The authors' conclusion: "The carnivore diet may offer short-term health benefits but carries substantial risks of nutrient deficiencies, reduced intake of health-promoting phytochemicals, and the development of cardiovascular disease. At this time, long-term adherence to a carnivore diet cannot be recommended."

Paul1977

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#3505377 23-Jun-2026 09:53

MikeAqua:

Evolution runs forward, like time. Something that did not evolve before you, cannot be your ancestor.

Fish are our ancestors because they evolved before us and you can draw a simple line back from humans to fish. You cannot draw a simple line from humans to Monkeys you'd have to go back to Aegyptopithecus and then forward again to monkeys.

Think about family. Your sibling isn't your ancestor (hopefully!). You do share a common ancestor with them.

Yeah I get it, but I don't recall anyone here saying monkeys were our ancestors, maybe they did and I missed it.

We didn't evolve from monkeys, but we are related to them, I'd say we are more closely related to monkeys than we are to fish. Just like I'm more closely related to my second cousin than I am to my great great great great great great grandfather.

Earbanean

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#3505386 23-Jun-2026 10:13

Paul1977:

Hmmmm.... wasn't particularly impressed with Dr today saying no point in lipid tests because he said cholesterol would be artificially high on carnivore so should wait until I'm off carnivore to do it. Didn't make sense to me when I wanted to see what effect the carnivore diet is having on cholesterol.

Then he suggested a more sensible healthy diet (as he should), but also suggested ~~Ozempic (or whatever one you get in NZ)~~ Mounjaro. I'm 193cm (6' 4") and about 118kg, not diabetic. Seems crazy to me that he would jump straight to ~~Ozempic~~ Mounjaro as part of a "healthy" lifestyle. Or am I missing something?

EDIT: It might have been Mounjaro he suggested, but I think it's the basically the same thing as Ozempic.

I imagine if you went to your doc and said you were taking up smoking to lose weight and would like him to schedule you some future chest x-rays to screen for lung cancer - then he might be reticent to do that. They tend to fall back on the medical science they have studied, and may not be up to date with the latest TikTok diets and such like. Doctors are such dinosaurs.

Paul1977

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#3505394 23-Jun-2026 10:33

Earbanean:

I imagine if you went to your doc and said you were taking up smoking to lose weight and would like him to schedule you some future chest x-rays to screen for lung cancer - then he might be reticent to do that. They tend to fall back on the medical science they have studied, and may not be up to date with the latest TikTok diets and such like. Doctors are such dinosaurs.

I hadn't thought of that, do you think smoking really might help with my weight loss?

timmmay

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#3505395 23-Jun-2026 10:39

Paul1977:

I hadn't thought of that, do you think smoking really might help with my weight loss?

Statistically.... probably?

I did the Atkins diet years ago and lost like 30kg in less than 6 months, pretty effective. Recently I lost 15kg by simply eating whole foods and a bit of light fasting - skipping breakfast most days, skipping lunch occasionally, which I did to help migraines rather than for weight loss. I still ate potatoes at each meal, home pealed and cooked, orange kumara, etc.

Sure, try carnivore for a while to help change your habits, but I would keep in mind the huge number of beneficial compounds in plants and vegetables that contribute to health and microbiome. If you can, keep up with herbs and spices, garlic, if it's allow try to add some low carb colorful vegetables at some point. And maybe don't make it a lifelong diet if it's just for weight loss, there are other ways that are quite effective that are probably less likely to shorten your life.

mudguard

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#3505396 23-Jun-2026 10:39

Paul1977:

I hadn't thought of that, do you think smoking really might help with my weight loss?

Well in lieu of eating it would work well. How do you think all those rockstars stayed so slim 😂

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#3505399 23-Jun-2026 10:55

mudguard:

Paul1977:

I hadn't thought of that, do you think smoking really might help with my weight loss?

Well in lieu of eating it would work well. How do you think all those rockstars stayed so slim 😂

I was a heavy smoker for 40years. Never got fat. I quit 20 years ago. Still not fat.

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Paul1977

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#3505437 23-Jun-2026 12:40

timmmay:

Sure, try carnivore for a while to help change your habits, but I would keep in mind the huge number of beneficial compounds in plants and vegetables that contribute to health and microbiome. If you can, keep up with herbs and spices, garlic, if it's allow try to add some low carb colorful vegetables at some point. And maybe don't make it a lifelong diet if it's just for weight loss, there are other ways that are quite effective that are probably less likely to shorten your life.

If I can stick to it long enough to hit my target weight, I think the amount I'd need to increase my fat consumption to maintain a set weight would be at a level higher than I'd enjoy eating. Long-term carnivores talk about having half a block of butter with their dinner, they just eat it with a knife and fork. That doesn't sound overly appealing.

If I don't see any of the other miraculous health benefits many of them seem to rave about, then I'd have little incentive to continue long-term.

I'm not a scientist, so any of my thoughts should be taken no more seriously than any other random person on the Internet. But I don't know for sure if that it's definitely unhealthy long-term and, the truth is, no-one knows as there have been no long-term studies following strict carnivores. Findings seem to be almost entirely extrapolated from studies looking at people on "normal" western diets.

From what I can tell, pretty much all the evidence that too much red meat is bad is coming from findings that actually say red & processed meat is bad - but they don't seem to distinguish between the two. High LDL in the absence of other risk factors also may not be as catastrophic as has been previously thought. There is no data that supports carnivore as a healthy long-term eating plan, but there is also none that proves conclusively that it's not. Findings are almost all extrapolated from studies looking at people on "normal" western diets.

I'm not advocating it as healthy, because there is a very good chance that it isn't; and what can be extrapolated from known studies suggest it's not. But in my opinion the jury is still out, and papers on this tend to end with "further study is required". It'd be interesting to see in another 10 or 20 years what the health outcomes actually are for people who follow this long-term.

Rikkitic

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#3505441 23-Jun-2026 12:53

Paul1977:.

I'm not advocating it as healthy, because there is a very good chance that it isn't; and what can be extrapolated from known studies suggest it's not. But in my opinion the jury is still out, and papers on this tend to end with "further study is required". It'd be interesting to see in another 10 or 20 years what the long-term health outcomes actually are for people who follow this long-term.

Are you willing to bet your life on it? I guess that's the only question that really matters. As far as I can tell, fad diets and similar pursuits are all searching for a magic bullet. I don't believe in magic bullets. If they existed, everyone would have one. It is a lot less satisfying to just eat a balanced diet and get exercise and hope you have good genes. But if there is a magic bullet, it is that.

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Paul1977

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#3505445 23-Jun-2026 13:09

Rikkitic:

Are you willing to bet your life on it? I guess that's the only question that really matters. As far as I can tell, fad diets and similar pursuits are all searching for a magic bullet. I don't believe in magic bullets. If they existed, everyone would have one. It is a lot less satisfying to just eat a balanced diet and get exercise and hope you have good genes. But if there is a magic bullet, it is that.

That's a fair enough question.

In the absence of seeing benefits other than weight loss, probably not something I'd risk long-term. But if other benefits emerged like, increased mental clarity, better mood, greatly improved sleep, etc (and assuming I could determine that strict carnivore was required to retain these), then I'd need to weigh the pros and cons. It would become a choice of (possibly) duration of life vs quality of life.

EDIT: To add that I suspect most people would find carnivore very difficult to stick to long-term. For that reason I'm not sure I'd call it a magic bullet, even if it is everything its proponents claim.

timmmay

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#3505447 23-Jun-2026 13:14

The thing about carnivore is it is a form of whole foods diet, which can help things like mental clarity, but so can whole food diets that include vegetables. I believe it is best to avoid foods high in sugar and carbohydrate where practical.

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MikeAqua

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#3505451 23-Jun-2026 13:34

Rikkitic:

Are you willing to bet your life on it? I guess that's the only question that really matters. As far as I can tell, fad diets and similar pursuits are all searching for a magic bullet. I don't believe in magic bullets. If they existed, everyone would have one. It is a lot less satisfying to just eat a balanced diet and get exercise and hope you have good genes. But if there is a magic bullet, it is that.

It doesn't have to be that binary. A person could try a diet, track some key metabolic indicators and see how it goes. Personally, I wouldn't eat any diet that doesn't contain a lot of fibre.

There is evidence that correlates high red meat/preserved meat diets with bowel cancer. However, correlation is not causation. It's very difficult to separate high meat diets from low fibre diets.

It seems clear that high fibre diets are protective in several ways. Reduced residence time, lower inflammation, healthier micro-biota, reduced absorption of sugars. It's feasible that eating red meat along with plenty of fibre is fine.

Mike

dafman

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#3505462 23-Jun-2026 14:14

Paul1977:

I'm not a scientist

This.

Nor do you appear to have any medical qualifications or training, yet you go on to draw your own conclusions about food and diet safety based on the 'evidence'.

Thanks to the internet, some of this evidence seems to come from people who advocate eating a half a block of butter in a single sitting.

Seriously, I wish you all the luck in your desire to reduce weight. There are sensible, proven, safe ways to do this that don't involve dangerous social media fads: Reduce your calorie intake, eat a balanced diet across a range of food groups, aim for natural foods and avoid processed where you can. If a product has ingredients your grandmother wouldn't recognise, don't buy it. Leave supermarket snacks on the shelf. Try to increase your exercise levels. Good luck.

Paul1977

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#3505474 23-Jun-2026 14:47

dafman:

This.

Nor do you appear to have any medical qualifications or training, yet you go on to draw your own conclusions about food and diet safety based on the 'evidence'.

Thanks to the internet, some of this evidence seems to come from people who advocate eating a half a block of butter in a single sitting.

Seriously, I wish you all the luck in your desire to reduce weight. There are sensible, proven, safe ways to do this that don't involve dangerous social media fads: Reduce your calorie intake, eat a balanced diet across a range of food groups, aim for natural foods and avoid processed where you can. If a product has ingredients your grandmother wouldn't recognise, don't buy it. Leave supermarket snacks on the shelf. Try to increase your exercise levels. Good luck.

I have drawn zero conclusions. In fact, I clearly acknowledged that the available evidence suggests it is likely unhealthy.

Please quote any conclusions I have made anywhere in this thread. But include the entire post you're quoting from - I'm not interested in snippets from a larger post that, in isolation, misrepresent what I said.

dafman

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#3505475 23-Jun-2026 15:03

Paul1977:

dafman:

This.

Nor do you appear to have any medical qualifications or training, yet you go on to draw your own conclusions about food and diet safety based on the 'evidence'.

Thanks to the internet, some of this evidence seems to come from people who advocate eating a half a block of butter in a single sitting.

Seriously, I wish you all the luck in your desire to reduce weight. There are sensible, proven, safe ways to do this that don't involve dangerous social media fads: Reduce your calorie intake, eat a balanced diet across a range of food groups, aim for natural foods and avoid processed where you can. If a product has ingredients your grandmother wouldn't recognise, don't buy it. Leave supermarket snacks on the shelf. Try to increase your exercise levels. Good luck.

I have drawn zero conclusions. In fact, I clearly acknowledged that the available evidence suggests it is likely unhealthy.

Please quote any conclusions I have made anywhere in this thread. But include the entire post you're quoting from - I'm not interested in snippets from a larger post that, in isolation, misrepresent what I said.

In the same post you said you were not a scientist, you went to say: "From what I can tell, pretty much all the evidence that too much red meat is bad is coming from findings that actually say red & processed meat is bad - but they don't seem to distinguish between the two. High LDL in the absence of other risk factors also may not be as catastrophic as has been previously thought."

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