2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2474937 1-May-2020 18:30

mattwnz:

If 90% of them never had covid, then what about the other 10%? IMO they were best not to use percentages like that, or at least use the correct percentage. Someone reading that may think that 10% of their population had covid based on what was reported.

My understanding is that because NZ is a country of travelers, and some of these clusters actually had the people in the cluster dispersed all throughout the country, that the virus could be silently spreading anywhere. Just because they may not have had a case, doesn't mean someone, or a group doesn't have it who doesn't have symptoms.Likewise someone may just not want to get tested, maybe fearing the test, and will just try and to get over it.

Hence why we are in level 3, to mop up any of these cases. These people need to watch the press conferences and get reporters to ask the questions. I think the reporters asked the right questions today, including about that funeral and the beach urinators, and it appears the politicians are seeing those people flouting the rules on social media. I think it is time for a zero tolerance on that sort of thing. As we have seen with a wedding, events of 100 or so people potentially can cause a major major problem with spreading this, and also lead to deaths.

I would be more open to opening towns to level 2 if all people in the town were all tested, and they didn't leave the town, but the fact is that people will and need to travel out of the town. The PM talked abut the Wairarapa as an example, and many in the Wairarapa travel over to Wellington, and likewise many from Wellington travel over to the Wairarapa to work, so it isn't easy to 'isolate' the Wairarapa at level 2, without having some form of restriction at the border. So it effectively makes that town or region even more isolated, if an area is at level 2, but all areas surrounding it are at level 3. It would probably be easier in reverse, if NZ moves out of level 2, but keeps some towns or regions in level 3

100% That an area is virus free (or seems to be), means that to stay virus free (or seems to be) is to lockdown inwards travel. Keep it virus free. If so, Im ok with that, is the Mayor(s)

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#2474941 1-May-2020 18:41

kingdragonfly: Pretty nasty video from the Xinhua News Agency, a widely known as being a propagandistic mouthpiece of the Chinese government.

It may be painting China in a positive light, but it's not completely wrong about the US response.

Yep, it happened, its happened in many places over the eons. The globe needs to suck it up, and resolve what we can, lessons will be learned. But the problem is not everyone will learn the lessons.

USA and China are at loggerheads over world domination. This virus has exacerbated that.

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#2474945 1-May-2020 18:51

I want the Police to draw a line in the sand this weekend. We have gone from L4 to L4 with fries, but too many think its L0. Opposition wants L2 yesterday, its as if we did L4 and its gone. Im a swing voter, I currency support the current Govt, but I shudder where we would be if the Opposition called the shots. Its a tough call, balancing Health and the Economy, but at least its Health and the Economy.

ezbee

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#2474954 1-May-2020 19:23

Yes well the Aussies , if there is any bubble sharing it will be on their terms.

Warriors seem to be finding out its not all that easy to push the envelope.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league/warriors/121378394/warriors-get-official-green-light-to-fly-into-tamworth-pay-dispute-only-barrier-left-to-climb

Fair enough its their country and not sure we would take the risk the other way.

Some might be remembering what happened with the with the Formula 1 GP, they got all the risks of international travelers back in March.

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#2474962 1-May-2020 19:45

kingdragonfly: They seemed to have forgot the part about the Chinese government allowing "wet markets"

I think, factually, the Chinese government did not allow "wet markets". However, the law banning them was no properly enforced. What's unclear is how far up the hierarchy knowledge of this reached.

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#2474963 1-May-2020 19:52

He said 90 per cent of the West Coast had never had Covid-19

He seems to have forgotten that at one point 100% of NZ covid-19 fatalities were on the West Coast.

Absence of positive tests is not a guarantee of absence of the virus.

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#2474964 1-May-2020 19:53

tdgeek:

Technofreak:

You are correct there are two crises at the moment.

There are some other numbers that probably should be read out too. Things like suicide statistics, domestic violence statistics, business closure statistics, etc etc.

Is that to highlight the cause due to the virus, or summit else?

To highlight the cause due to the virus.

Just taking suicide, it's a well known fact suicides increase in tough economic times, and for some people those tough times are here right now even with government support.

I don't have any figures but I mentioned my thoughts to a friend and he said he'd seen death notices recently which were for suicides which he was sure were Covid 19 related.

I think we have become so fixated on our solution to the Covid 19 problem that we have lost sight of the fact there are indirect side effects to that solution. I think the public need to know about these indirect side effects. Having some factual verifiable information on the suicides rates, domestic violence etc since the lock down would give some perspective on the true cost to society of this pandemic.

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#2474969 1-May-2020 20:03

Technofreak:
tdgeek:

Is that to highlight the cause due to the virus, or summit else?

To highlight the cause due to the virus.

Just taking suicide, it's a well known fact suicides increase in tough economic times, and for some people those tough times are here right now even with government support.

I don't have any figures but I mentioned my thoughts to a friend and he said he'd seen death notices recently which were for suicides which he was sure were Covid 19 related.

I think we have become so fixated on our solution to the Covid 19 problem that we have lost sight of the fact there are indirect side effects to that solution. I think the public need to know about these indirect side effects. Having some factual verifiable information on the suicides rates, domestic violence etc since the lock down would give some perspective on the true cost to society of this pandemic.

The brother-in-law of one of my subordinates took his own life recently, as a direct result of changes to his situation brought on by covid and the lockdown. While I personally don't know of any friends, family or work colleagues who have been infected, this was very close to home.

There is very little mention, if any, of these second and third order effects the lockdown is having.

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#2475055 2-May-2020 06:24

In India, areas that have had no confirmed covid-19 cases for 21 days don't have as strict lockdown rules as areas where the virus is more active. No doubt, the West Coast mayors of NZ would like this approach to be adopted here. Also, India has a system of zone classifications that are "dynamic", which means they are updated weekly, which is what Sir John Key has suggested would be good in NZ.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-52505436

The national coronavirus lockdown in India has been extended beyond 4 May for another two weeks.

New guidelines, outlined on Friday, update the country's designated red, green and orange zoning system.

Red zones are considered hotspots, while considerable relaxations will be permitted in areas considered less dangerous.

The outbreak has caused large economic disruption across the country, with many labourers deprived of income and millions of migrant workers left stranded in economic hardship.

Areas will be classified as green zones if they have had no confirmed cases for 21 days, according to the guidelines.

All of India's major metropolitan areas remain classified as red zones and will stay under strict lockdown measures.

All of the zone classifications have been described as "dynamic" and will be updated weekly, officials say.

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#2475057 2-May-2020 06:56

The Machine

thejuicemedia

The Austrelian (sic) government has made an ad about its response to the pandemic, and it's surprisingly honest and informative.

cshwone

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#2475059 2-May-2020 07:14

kingdragonfly: The Machine

thejuicemedia

The Austrelian (sic) government has made an ad about its response to the pandemic, and it's surprisingly honest and informative.

Absolutely outstanding and not so far from the truth either 😁

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#2475087 2-May-2020 09:16

Technofreak:

To highlight the cause due to the virus.

Just taking suicide, it's a well known fact suicides increase in tough economic times, and for some people those tough times are here right now even with government support.

I don't have any figures but I mentioned my thoughts to a friend and he said he'd seen death notices recently which were for suicides which he was sure were Covid 19 related.

I think we have become so fixated on our solution to the Covid 19 problem that we have lost sight of the fact there are indirect side effects to that solution. I think the public need to know about these indirect side effects. Having some factual verifiable information on the suicides rates, domestic violence etc since the lock down would give some perspective on the true cost to society of this pandemic.

I agree. Take some countries that acted late, who had higher mortality rates from the virus. people died as they got care too late, or not at all. People died from non virus issues as they didn't get care, or in time, and yes, suicides. The other side of the coin is what's the effect if we acted late here. If we held off, only went to L3 or took a Sweden approach. What happens then is clusters like Bluff that spread will occur all the time, the virus would be everywhere here, and cases appear each day that we dont know where they caught it. For the suicide vulnerable, its better to be bored and frustrated and have cabin fever than being scared to leave home. If it got away here from reducing stay at home measures, anyone out there, no matter how careful they were are a risk. I feel that the distress from being told to stay home is better than being scared to leave home. But yeah, there is a point in a line that has no action at one end and excessive action at the other, where the distress and virus protection is the most efficient. No one knows where that point is.

Once this is done and dusted, suicides and general mental health care needs to be part of the shakedown of what has happened, so we can be better prepared in 2023, 2028, or 2031, when it happens again.

tdgeek

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#2475091 2-May-2020 09:24

frednz:

In India, areas that have had no confirmed covid-19 cases for 21 days don't have as strict lockdown rules as areas where the virus is more active. No doubt, the West Coast mayors of NZ would like this approach to be adopted here. Also, India has a system of zone classifications that are "dynamic", which means they are updated weekly, which is what Sir John Key has suggested would be good in NZ.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-52505436

The national coronavirus lockdown in India has been extended beyond 4 May for another two weeks.

New guidelines, outlined on Friday, update the country's designated red, green and orange zoning system.

Red zones are considered hotspots, while considerable relaxations will be permitted in areas considered less dangerous.

The outbreak has caused large economic disruption across the country, with many labourers deprived of income and millions of migrant workers left stranded in economic hardship.

Areas will be classified as green zones if they have had no confirmed cases for 21 days, according to the guidelines.

All of India's major metropolitan areas remain classified as red zones and will stay under strict lockdown measures.

All of the zone classifications have been described as "dynamic" and will be updated weekly, officials say.

Aside from India's numbers being doubtful to say the very least, there isnt a lot wrong with relaxing areas, but you need roadblocks in the areas to stop others going there, and re infecting it. Given the clear inability of humans to obey basic rules, thats a risk. The other issue is zero recorded cases doesn't mean zero cases.

It all comes down to risk. The West Coast is ideal to reduce the lockdown as there are few roads leading in, they would need to be blocked 24/7

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#2475132 2-May-2020 10:30

Removed a few replies about conspiracy theories. Fact people, facts.

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#2475135 2-May-2020 10:32

freitasm:

Removed a few replies about conspiracy theories. Fact people, facts.

Right... So now its a conspiracy theory that China denied the WHO entry to the country to investigate the origins of the virus?

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