2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2482270 12-May-2020 22:06

The number of hospitalised people is higher than MoH has been reporting

I am not going to go as far as saying that the MoH has been intentionally misleading but they really just can't seem to do much right lately. Their definition of "in hospital" is so strained and against notions of common sense that, when combined with some of their recently revealed behaviour (e.g. the Christiansen case), they just don't reflect well on them.

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#2482274 12-May-2020 22:19

dejadeadnz:

The number of hospitalised people is higher than MoH has been reporting

I am not going to go as far as saying that the MoH has been intentionally misleading but they really just can't seem to do much right lately. Their definition of "in hospital" is so strained and against notions of common sense that, when combined with some of their recently revealed behaviour (e.g. the Christiansen case), they just don't reflect well on them.

This will be old mate Tova

She banged in 4 in a row out of the blocks trying to get a quote that makes them look bad about Funerals (11:10). Then later that. And because he didn't have the figure of total people in a medical facility..

https://youtu.be/Y15W3jyqTWc?t=1919

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#2482279 12-May-2020 22:37

article by a professor of immunology

https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them

loceff13

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#2482281 12-May-2020 22:53

dejadeadnz:

The number of hospitalised people is higher than MoH has been reporting

I am not going to go as far as saying that the MoH has been intentionally misleading but they really just can't seem to do much right lately. Their definition of "in hospital" is so strained and against notions of common sense that, when combined with some of their recently revealed behaviour (e.g. the Christiansen case), they just don't reflect well on them.

They have mentioned care home residents being in hospital care probably a dozen times during daily briefings with the same reporting standards, I don't see how it's misleading because a reporter only sees a issue with it now. Theres also the issue that homes won't take covid patients back until they are recovered, they are not ill enough to be admitted to hospital but are housed there until they recover/test negative etc.

dejadeadnz

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#2482283 12-May-2020 22:56

loceff13:

They have mentioned care home residents being in hospital care probably a dozen times during daily briefings with the same reporting standards, I don't see how it's misleading because a reporter only sees a issue with it now. Theres also the issue that homes won't take covid patients back until they are recovered, they are not ill enough to be admitted to hospital but are housed there until they recover/test negative etc.

If there isn't any issue, it's difficult for me to accept why the MoH has actually agreed that there's an issue and has clarified the rather confusing way they were reporting the data. Actions speak louder than words. Set aside one's distaste for the media or the individual reporter at large: wouldn't any sane person want simple, straightforward and easy-to-understand data?

frankv

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#2482284 12-May-2020 22:56

dejadeadnz:
The number of hospitalised people is higher than MoH has been reporting

I am not going to go as far as saying that the MoH has been intentionally misleading but they really just can't seem to do much right lately. Their definition of "in hospital" is so strained and against notions of common sense that, when combined with some of their recently revealed behaviour (e.g. the Christiansen case),

I'm not sure I still buy the "in hospital but not because they need hospital care" story. We had the same story about the Woodside residents moved to Burwood, and then they started dying one by one.

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#2482292 12-May-2020 23:54

frankv:
dejadeadnz:

The number of hospitalised people is higher than MoH has been reporting

I am not going to go as far as saying that the MoH has been intentionally misleading but they really just can't seem to do much right lately. Their definition of "in hospital" is so strained and against notions of common sense that, when combined with some of their recently revealed behaviour (e.g. the Christiansen case),

I'm not sure I still buy the "in hospital but not because they need hospital care" story. We had the same story about the Woodside residents moved to Burwood, and then they started dying one by one.

Don't know about the cases up North, but the ones sent to Burwood had to be taken out of the unit, they were taken to Burwood because that could offer isolation (including reasonable protection for staff) whilst maintaining an appropriate level of care. Of course they died - it was psycho geriatric ward for people with advanced dementia (and multiple co-morbidities) - not perhaps what some people may think of as a "rest-home" with "residents". They weren't in "hospital" and weren't transferred to a facility to improve quality of medical care. These deaths wouldn't have even been counted in most countries in C-19 stats.

Something like this becomes "political" and preyed on by opportunistic reporters citing sources as ridiculous as:

"An employee from the Waitemata DHB says in her mind, the Ministry's reporting of the data has been misleading".

A notion of common sense suggests to me that's a ludicrous thing for a reporter to put on paper.

Fred99

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#2482296 13-May-2020 00:01

dejadeadnz:

If there isn't any issue, it's difficult for me to accept why the MoH has actually agreed that there's an issue and has clarified the rather confusing way they were reporting the data. Actions speak louder than words. Set aside one's distaste for the media or the individual reporter at large: wouldn't any sane person want simple, straightforward and easy-to-understand data?

The stupid reporter actually included a snip/screenshot of the MoH response - which was perfectly reasonable.

The cold hard truth is that they aren't considered to be "in hospital" because they're not going to be treated with any serious interventional therapy / ICU level care for C-19 or anything else.

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#2482297 13-May-2020 00:08

dejadeadnz:

loceff13:

They have mentioned care home residents being in hospital care probably a dozen times during daily briefings with the same reporting standards, I don't see how it's misleading because a reporter only sees a issue with it now. Theres also the issue that homes won't take covid patients back until they are recovered, they are not ill enough to be admitted to hospital but are housed there until they recover/test negative etc.

If there isn't any issue, it's difficult for me to accept why the MoH has actually agreed that there's an issue and has clarified the rather confusing way they were reporting the data. Actions speak louder than words. Set aside one's distaste for the media or the individual reporter at large: wouldn't any sane person want simple, straightforward and easy-to-understand data?

While there may have not been anything "wrong" with the previous way the data was represented the new format provides more clarity. There is no downside with the new format.

It's pretty simple from a comms perspective - you can argue with the media or just make the problem go away.

Fred99

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#2482298 13-May-2020 00:22

Handle9:

While there may have not been anything "wrong" with the previous way the data was represented the new format provides more clarity. There is no downside with the new format.

It's pretty simple from a comms perspective - you can argue with the media or just make the problem go away.

True enough.

They'd have probably had to go through past press briefings - to show that the very same subject had been explained WRT the Burwood transfers weeks ago. Maybe the reporter had a memory recall issue.

dejadeadnz

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#2482299 13-May-2020 00:36

Handle9:

While there may have not been anything "wrong" with the previous way the data was represented the new format provides more clarity. There is no downside with the new format.

It's pretty simple from a comms perspective - you can argue with the media or just make the problem go away.

This. And the fact that your average citizen does not have the time (nor the interest) to delve into the finer details. Whether that's right or wrong doesn't matter. Present the facts in the easiest/simplest/least confusing way possible and shut up. It's not much to ask -- then again, the people presenting the data originally do work in a Ministry that was acting like a lawless mob. From my vantage point, once you've been exposed as being as below grade as they were in the Christiansen case, you get no benefit of the doubt ever.

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#2482317 13-May-2020 05:11

We've display dummies as guests in some restaurants "for our customers not to feel too lonely" (because only 60% of seating can be used in Germany). Funny times. :-)

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#2482402 13-May-2020 07:42

Tinkerisk:

We've display dummies as guests in some restaurants "for our customers not to feel too lonely" (because only 60% of seating can be used in Germany). Funny times. :-)

That would make me feel like I was eating with dead people.

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#2482408 13-May-2020 07:50

I assume tomorrow will be a retail frenzy? All that pent up demand. Take Bunnings for example. 100 limit applies? That must include staff. I can see big supermarket-esque lines

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#2482414 13-May-2020 08:18

tdgeek:

I assume tomorrow will be a retail frenzy? All that pent up demand. Take Bunnings for example. 100 limit applies? That must include staff. I can see big supermarket-esque lines

Well it won’t include me. There is nothing I have to have with such urgency that I will go and stand in a queue outside an establishment at 2m spacing. Not what businesses want to hear, but that’s the way I’m viewing it.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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